No back spring in landing gear actuators

[M20S Driver]

I heard Mooney may increase the recommended 1000 hour replacement on no back spring clutch in the landing gear motor assemblies to 2000 hours but add an inspection at 1000 hours. Does anyone have any info on this?

[BorealOne]

I just had to replace mine @ 1000h, so the old SB is still in effect.

[M20S Driver]

That's correct. The old SB is still in effect but it may change in the next few months.

[fantom]

I just had to replace mine @ 1000h, so the old SB is still in effect.

Before we go into no back clutch spring mass hysteria, it's more accurate to say you CHOOSE to replace, rather than have to replace it. Unless, of course, it was giving you chattering early warning signs.

There is nothing mandatory about a SB.

[triple8s]

When should one expect to hear the "chattering" early warning signs? Maybe while on jacks testing the emerg gear operation and the spring is winding the pull cable in?

[Deb]

According to Bill Eldred, Mooney is working on increasing the replacement time to 2000 hrs, with annual inspections between 1000 & 2000 hrs. The no back spring is (apparently) a time limited part. Premier Aircraft Service (a MSC and an FAA repair station) insisted on replacing the part at 1000 hrs.

[fantom]

Premier Aircraft Service (a MSC and an FAA repair station) insisted on replacing the part at 1000 hrs.

 

No surprise there

[Mike A]

 Premier Aircraft Service (a MSC and an FAA repair station) insisted on replacing the part at 1000 hrs.

 

That probably means that it was perfectly fine, but PAS isn't one to leave any money on the table.

[M20S Driver]

I heard Mooney may increase the recommended 1000 hour replacement on no back spring clutch in the landing gear motor assemblies to 2000 hours but add an inspection at 1000 hours. Does anyone have any info on this?

 

Has anyone heard an update on this?  I could not find any new information online.. 

[jetdriven]

According to Bill Eldred, Mooney is working on increasing the replacement time to 2000 hrs, with annual inspections between 1000 & 2000 hrs. The no back spring is (apparently) a time limited part. Premier Aircraft Service (a MSC and an FAA repair station) insisted on replacing the part at 1000 hrs.

Ask them where it's mandated by AD or by airworthiness limitations section in the service manual, because SB's are not mandatory on Part 91 operators. Then get out the door. This is the same shop that replaced the shock discs on my friend's 230 hour since new Acclaim, then did it again a year later. 9,000$ annual on a M20TN. Right.

[Deb]

Premier stated that it's listed as a time limited part and the aircraft would not be airworthy if the part was not replaced (the plane was in for annual). Since then, Mooney has changed this. Best to give Don Maxwell a call; he knows all the details. I believe the bottom line is that it's no longer mandatory (if it ever was) for Part 91.

[fantom]

Premier stated that it's listed as a time limited part and the aircraft would not be airworthy if the part was not replaced (the plane was in for annual).91.

That was either misunderstood or a lie!

[Deb]

I would prefer to not go into any more detail on this forum other than what I have already posted. If you'd like to PM or email your phone number, I'll call and discuss/explain in more detail (I hope this is proper etiquette; I'm relatively new to this). I appreciate all the comments and support.

Again, my understanding is that Mooney has revised their publications, so to some extent this is more of an academic discussion at this point. However, I would not want to minimize the importance of the discussion.

[carusoam]

Deb,

Open and honest discussion is commendable...

Fantom is pointing out a tough situation.

Mooney parts are not time limited for part 91 flying. (Hope I said that correctly)

Worn Mooney landing gear parts are known to lead to heart ache. (Electric and manual)

Premier being a well known business with extensive Mooney experience...

There is something odd in the mix...

Etiquette is good. Not everybody has it.

Bashing is improper. Some people don't know they are doing it.

Do the best you honestly can.

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

Etiquette is good. Not everybody has it.

Bashing is improper. Some people don't know they are doing it.

-a-

While i'm not certain what you're getting at, straight talk is neither bashing nor poor etiquette.

[M20S Driver]

Unless and until an AD ordering it is issued, compliance with this Service Bulletin is totally voluntary for Part 91 operators. fantom is entirely correct. Something doesn't jive here. Premier knows this all too well.

Jim

 

This is exactly what I heard from Top Gun last year.  

Tom R. (Mooney Guru at Top Gun)  also mentioned that Mooney is looking into 1000 hour inspection and 2000 hours replacement recommendations--- still not mandatory.

 

Mine was inspects at 400 hours and I may choose to replace it at 1400 hours.

[Deb]

Again, Premier stated it was a time limited part. Chapter 4 of the M20R Service and Maintenance Manual. They took the position that this was not a SB situation. The replacement is not inexpensive, and we would not want to unnecessarily replace a part which is perfectly OK. That being said, Premier is an FAA Repair Station; they insisted on replacing the part. Please email/PM me with a phone number and I'll discuss further. I do not disagree with any of the posts; I'm just reporting our experience. I appreciate the kind words and support.

[jetdriven]

Unless it's contained in the "Airworthiness limitations" of the maintenance manual then it is not mandatory for part 91 operators. I'm semi-familiar with te M20S manual, I don't think it has an Airworthines limitations section. It's CAR 3, FAR part 23 airplanes do. I'd call the Miami FSDO and ask them that, then send that to Premier.

The only Mooney part I'm aware of that does meet this category is the M20M Bravo exhaust clamp. I think it can only be torqued twice or ran 1000 hours and must be replaced after either/or.

[Marauder]

Who is Deb? Her last post makes it sound like she works for Premier.

[mike_elliott]

Who is Deb? He last post makes it sound like she works for Premier.

 

I know exactly who they are. They are 2 of the kindest, most professional Mooney pilots I have met and have had the pleasure to fly with on more than one occasion. Let me assure you they don't work for Premier, they just prefer not to be goaded into publicly bashing Premier.  They simply were sharing their experience with the list on the posture taken by Premier on their no back spring, and their subsequent findings. If anyone would like to discuss their experience with them privately, Please email me and I will be happy to give you their contact info, as they have no problem discussing this privately, or PM them directly.

All that said, I also personally know Fred and Cathy Ahles of Premier and have found them to be wonderful supporters of the Mooney community. They have unselfishly contributed to the Mooney Summits and have committed to continue to do so. Richard Simile is an outstanding Sales manager for Premier that puts his clients needs first and foremost, even at the cost of a sale to himself like it should be. I have not had any service work done personally by Premier yet, so I cannot speak firsthand of that. I consider both DEB and PREMIER to be good friends, and we are fortunate to have them in our community.  

[carusoam]

Gary,

My English isn't what it used to be...

If there was a way to find out what happened, I gave it my best effort...

It appeared to me that Deb was making a good attempt of proper posting behavior.

She used one word, I added the other. To illustrate what often happens to a new person at MS that arrives here with a tough situation.

How long have you known me?

What did you think I said or meant?

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

Not to worry Anthony.

I have first hand experience with the subject MSC since the day they opened, and with the owner since he was a salesman for another brand. The shop is a sales organization first and foremost. IMHO maintenance is not their strong point. Sales come first.

Being affable, having acquaintances in the GA business, and/or supporting, or should I say advertising, at Mooney events is not an accurate measure of the efficacy of an organization in my opinion.

Caveat Emptor.

[carusoam]

Point well taken.

Thank you, Gary.

I am on their monthly email blast.

I don't think I'll make it to the level of purchasing a new plane.

Way too many stars to get aligned for me...

Best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

back to the airworthyness limitations section that is causing all the confusion.As I recall the wording must use a definitive such as "must" as in engine must be overhauled at 2000 hrs or noback spring must be replaced at 1000 hrs.The actual wording in this section is the statement " it is recomended that engine be overhauled,vac pump regulator be relaced or overhauled,or no back spring replaced at 1000 hrs.Don Maxwell had some thoughts on this in this forum somewhere.Premier is interpreting this as a time life airworthyness requirement...They feel they are doing a service to avoid a broken spring jamming the gearbox.I wonder howmany springs have actually failed?

[jetdriven]

So does the M20S have an airworthiness limitations section? If so? What does it say?