City of Naples BS

[N601RX]

I received the following letter from the city of Naples today. They obviously have a lot of people sitting around with nothing to do. About a month ago I flew into North Captivia Island which is about 40 miles north of Naples. ATC didn't have Captivia listed and ask me to give them something close, so off the top of my head I said Naples as I knew it was in a direct line with my flight. When handed off to Ft Myers, I told them I was going to Captivia. This was around 2:00 pm in the afternoon. The letter states that I was observed by airport staff operating during curfew which doesn't start until 10pm. The letter obviously has no legal authority. If I'm ever back in the area, I think I'll go do some landings and pattern work as the sun is coming up.

They have also post my tail number on their website as a curfew breaker so all their Liberal Tree Huggers can attempt to harass and intimidate me. http://www.flynaples.com/images/docs/noise/MonthNoise/2013/oct%20vc.pdf

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Jamie]

That's nowhere near naples. I guess their "aggresive education and outreach" consists of sending letters to people who appear to go into naples based on... flightaware.com?

 

Yet another case of "airport was here first".

 

I can understand they'd rather not piss off the q-tips, but the tone of the letter seems designed to antagonize. Something more along the lines of "Hey, we're happy you visited Naples, hope you enjoyed your stay come back again soon! and, oh by the way, we're surrounded on all sides by airplane hating gomers, so if you wouldn't mind terribly much, could you possibly work some of the following suggested noise abatement procedures into your routine on upon your return? Thanks, old boy." would likely be better received.

[N601RX]

That's nowhere near naples. I guess their "aggresive education and outreach" consists of sending letters to people who appear to go into naples based on... flightaware.com?

Yet another case of "airport was here first".

I can understand they'd rather not piss off the q-tips, but the tone of the letter seems designed to antagonize. Something more along the lines of "Hey, we're happy you visited Naples, hope you enjoyed your stay come back again soon! and, oh by the way, we're surrounded on all sides by airplane hating gomers, so if you wouldn't mind terribly much, could you possibly work some of the following suggested noise abatement procedures into your routine on upon your return? Thanks, old boy." would likely be better received.

The airport website actually instructs viewers to go to flightaware when they hear a plane to see who the violator is.

"If you're interested in finding out about planes that you've seen or heard flying in or out of Naples (airport code is APF), you can go to Flightaware.com, a website that shows real-time flight tracks and aircraft information for the entire country, as well as archives of that data going back three months! It's a great resource for all sorts of interesting information for the enthusiast, students and concerned citizens!"

[N601RX]

OK. For the record. I live in Florida and will from this date forward never fly into or otherwise contribute positively to the Naples economy in any way.

Come see us again some time soon up here in NW Florida, Mike. We appreciate your business.

Jim

I think I will fly into Dog Island next time. Have you tried it out before?

[Jamie]

The airport website actually instructs viewers to go to flightaware when they hear a plane to see who the violator is.

"If you're interested in finding out about planes that you've seen or heard flying in or out of Naples (airport code is APF), you can go to Flightaware.com, a website that shows real-time flight tracks and aircraft information for the entire country, as well as archives of that data going back three months! It's a great resource for all sorts of interesting information for the enthusiast, students and concerned citizens!"

 

time to "faa source level" block registration information.

 

Aside: I did that a few days ago (sent the email) but have yet to receive a confirmation... anyone had success blocking registration info / n number from services like flightwatch through the asdi email address?

[John Pleisse]

I feel compelled to write, but I cannot find any constructive comment on this. It's like landing at Morristown, NJ for gas and getting a NJ Port Authority bill for a $48 landing fee a month later......But seriously...with Naples and Sarasota.....it's the private jet traffic that makes the noise and they go picking on prop GA as the noise culprit.....puhlease...

[Bob]

Looks like they may use flightaware to "pad" their list of troublemakers to make their point stronger or to build up a history for a later agenda!

[Cabanaboy]

You need to respond and see how many hours of their time you can waste. Send form letters to the entire County Council, Mayor, airport commissioners,  Make sure you use the names of the person that signed that nasty letter, telling them they are wrong and how harmed and hurt you are because of their horrible and nasty action.

[aviatoreb]

I feel compelled to write I cannot find any constructive comment on this. It's like landing at Morristown, NJ for gas and getting a NJ Port Authority bill for a $48 landing fee a month later......But seriously...with Naples and Sarasota.....it's the private jet traffic that makes the noise and they go picking on prop GA as the noise culprit.....puhlease...

 

Darn it!  Really?!!!  Ok, got-me-too.  I flew to KMMU two weeks ago...I guess I have not received my bill yet.  :-/

[N33GG]

I am going to that part of Florida the week after Thanksgiving for an extended vacation with several members of my family. Naples will not get a dime of our money. Thanks for the heads up.

[Hank]

I am going to that part of Florida the week after Thanksgiving for an extended vacation with several members of my family. Naples will not get a dime of our money. Thanks for the heads up.

Avoidance tactics have greater effect with publicity. Write the Mayor, County Commission, Airport Board AND the Convention and Visitors Bureau and politely tell them why you are avoiding their hotels, restaurants and other businesses.

[Earl]

I read the letter and it struck me as a mixed bag. The first page was pretty obnoxious and the second page seemed more conciliatory and asked for voluntary compliance. Frankly I can understand their concern with all the NIMBY's that buy a house close to an airport and then complain about the noise. They are probably trying to avoid an effort to close the airport, albeit in a ham handed way. Naples is a big retirement community and I am sure the number of folks up after 10pm is pretty small.

I agree with others that a letter educating them on the potential errors using something like Flightaware would be helpful and kindly asking them to remove your plane from the list of offenders would be appropriate. Boycotting Naples because of this, maybe not so much......but that's just me, I am not a big boycott fan.

As for the one about NJ, boy is that true and it's even worse. I spent the night there and got fuel and the fee was included with my charges. Then a month later I got a bill from the airport authority for the same charge. I sent them a nasty gram with a copy of my FBO bill and haven't heard from them since. No idea whether it resolved the issue but I will avoid that airport like the plague just in case. What an anti business approach but then again, we are talking New Jersey.

[tony]

Neil Boortz lives there.  He used to (might still do) own an ovation.  I think if he knew what happened perhaps he could explain the error of their ways to the mayor

[Mooneymite]

Neil Boortz lives there.  

 

Another good reason to avoid APF!

 

I can't believe they accost you when you merely fly over.

 

If you're going to Naples and you intend to rent a car anyway, consider FMY, Page field 26 NM north.  According to the comments on Airnav, FMY airport is much more friendly!  The Naples "Authority" takes it's name very seriously!

 

.

[N601RX]

I didn't even fly over. The flight ended approx 40 miles prior to reaching Naples as well as 8 hrs

Before curfew . I've also read of some airports attempting to collect landing fees based on flight aware data.

[fantom]

Naples, many times has very cheap fuel. If you're just going to one of the two fuel pumps, no landing fee. If you head for the FBO you'll most likely get zapped. I don't go there anymore. The retiree community there is high end as all the private jets at Naples will attest. I'm thinking letters like this are just another attempt to keep GA riff-raff far away. Seems to be working

[gregwatts]

You may be over reacting! It is a standard form letter. Someone on the ground with a portable radio overheard your tail number being used and filed a false complaint. It happens at every uncontrolled airport! I personally never use my tail number when landing or taking off from an uncontrolled field. A complaint without an N-number is useless.....so the activists have portable radios and will use whatever N-number they hear on frequency.

[Seth]

If I understand your post correctly, you did not actually fly to Naples or fly in their vicinity during their "voluntary curfew" hours? Is that correct?

I wonder if you should write them a very carefully and professionally worded response, sticking strictly to those facts. Clearly their staff did NOT observe you and their information is incorrect. Perhaps, strongly suggest that they not only remove you from their list, but issue a formal apology published in the local newspaper and/or their website. I would not make any threats but would point out very nicely that the Mayor, who signed your letter, and the "Executive Director" who produced the letter are publicly and personally liable for accuracy, content and consequences of their actions. And that an immediate public apology and acknowledgement of their error could possibly preclude the need for any further action on your part and and bring a satisfactory conclusion to the matter.

I would give them a further slap in the face by questioning the accuracy of the rest of their data, ask what sort of verification process they have in place prior to publishing data and spending tax-payer funds on locating and contacting innocent citizens. You may go as far as to suggest they do an internal review and quality control check since they clearly have errant information about you and may have erroneously contacted others as well.

You might conclude with how "neighborly" you fly and how you always consider noise abatement procedures a priority in your flight planning ... and thank them for their service to the community!

Feel free to use anything I have written ...

Ahh, it's so nice to read words and techniques I would use!  Follow this advice, only if you have the time of course.

 

-Seth

[DrBill]

Could be they were a digit off on the N number.   Transposed, etc.  I'll bet a similar N number plane is what they saw....  I'd reply suggesting that and that you were never at Naples on the dates indicated.

BILL

[Jamie]

The reality is the letter means nothing and you should do nothing.

 

They're too big and you're too small to have any effect. They'll circular file your letter and not think twice. You'd have traction if you had Money, and a Presence in Naples. They neither know nor care they sent a notice to the wrong aircraft.

 

Since the gist of the letter is basically "go away or I shall taunt you a second time", you can also be just as indifferent. If they'd tried to fine you, then you'd have reason to start planning your response.

 

You probably did the best thing you could by giving this some visiblity on the internet. Maybe also post to a few other boards?

[RocketAviator]

If I understand your post correctly, you did not actually fly to Naples or fly in their vicinity during their "voluntary curfew" hours? Is that correct?

I wonder if you should write them a very carefully and professionally worded response, sticking strictly to those facts. Clearly their staff did NOT observe you and their information is incorrect. Perhaps, strongly suggest that they not only remove you from their list, but issue a formal apology published in the local newspaper and/or their website. I would not make any threats but would point out very nicely that the Mayor, who signed your letter, and the "Executive Director" who produced the letter are publicly and personally liable for accuracy, content and consequences of their actions. And that an immediate public apology and acknowledgement of their error could possibly preclude the need for any further action on your part and and bring a satisfactory conclusion to the matter.

I would give them a further slap in the face by questioning the accuracy of the rest of their data, ask what sort of verification process they have in place prior to publishing data and spending tax-payer funds on locating and contacting innocent citizens. You may go as far as to suggest they do an internal review and quality control check since they clearly have errant information about you and may have erroneously contacted others as well.

You might conclude with how "neighborly" you fly and how you always consider noise abatement procedures a priority in your flight planning ... and thank them for their service to the community!

Feel free to use anything I have written ...

Heres another idea that more of us could help or cause a great impact by participating in writing to NB:  A number of us or better yet ALL of us write a letter stating that we are or are not or were planning or whatever a trip in the area but after hearing what they did to NX601RX, we felt it necessary to inform them just how far reaching their ill-effective and inhospitable their efforts are and the repercussions that can and do exist when such an disingenuous effort takes place... or something along those lines... I would not necessarily disclose we are the Mooney group but rather fellow aviation associates.  Just let me know what I can do, this is nonsense and what a definitive waste of NB efforts & resources!

Lacee

[carusoam]

David,

We are the fortunate ones. We are able to fly Mooneys...

Arizona sent me a tax bill because a previous owner once kept my plane there.

A phone call, an email and probably a fax straightened it all out.

The low end of the public job scale is where these people exist. They have more time available to make your life miserable. They probably don't get to fly brand C...

Practice your efficiency skill to see how few words you need to use to get things resolved properly.

Best regards,

-a-

[PTK]

I think it's an innocent mistake being you were 40 miles away!

It's an informative form letter about their voluntary curfew. I bet they sent out many of these to pilots within a certain radius.

I wouldn't let it bother me.

[RocketAviator]

After "cooling-off" ... I think I am more in agreement with Jamie: do nothing ...

... or if anything if this was me - send a very nicely worded letter explaining that I am very conscious of curfews and noise abatement procedures. Explain that I fly like that everywhere I travel. And I hope to be "partners" with them in a fly neighborly mindset, if I ever do travel in their area. I would mention that it is unfortunate that the information they obtained was erroneous, that I never actually flew or landed in their immediate area, or during their curfew hours, and reference my flight track and time of flight as a matter of fact.

After some reflection the following mindset is what I should tell myself to have:

I need to be a good "spokesperson" for general aviation and aviation in general.

Several airports have stringent abatement procedures, Tampa Int'l and John Wayne immediately come to mind. I need to communicate in a POSITIVE MANNER to reassure the aviation haters, those who would point lasars at airplanes to express their disapproval, Communicate that I am sensitive to their desire for peace and quiet during late hours. I should remind them of the benefits of aviation to a community, in freedom of travel, in medical transportation, in freedom of travel ... And so on ... at least give them our best pitch ... even if we know we won't win them over.

It's that "winning more flies with honey than vinegar" thing ... or "blessed are the peacemakers."

My first inclination was from anger at the injustice and absolute inaccuracies and unfairness of it ... but to write in that tone would be counter-productive.

I think I had it wrong ... And this is the correct manner to deal with this ... most other things too ...

I do commend your resolve, but sometimes it is necessary to help others understand what the unintended consequences of thier actions or in actions have.  Again I commend your thoughts and conclusion to the matter.

Lacee

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I think it was damn inconsiderate of the city of Naples to send you those letters printed sideways rather than right side up. Salt in the wound.