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"When do you use takeoff flaps?" Takeoff.

If anyone is interested, I hope to leave the United States in the next 2 or 3 days to fly my M20E to France. Progress reports here: http://n822e.wordpress.com/ Can't wait to get going!

TO flaps to take off! Why run the tires more than you need. Why have multiple "normal" procedures? Less chance of an accident if your procedure is the same every time. No good reason not to do it Right.

As many of you can see, Mitch and I hired Jim Koepnick to shoot our Mooney Ovation at OSH. I just wanted to say this was a wonderful experience from start to finish. Bruce Moore was the pilot [he works for EAA and does freelance] and the photo plane was Patty Wagstaff's V-tail bonanza. If you ever have the idea to do air-to-air photo/video I would suggest and highly recommend Jim Koepnick. He is an award winning aviation photographer. He currently has four magazine covers if I remember correctly: GA News, Kit Plane, Sport Aviation and one more I can't remember. I think I have OSH-lag still. I think our photos look beautiful and it is something I will remember the rest of my life thanks to Jim. Jim Koepnick jimkoepnick@mac.com koepnickphotography.com 920-216-3870

haha. I've done that a few times.

Nobody as of yet has mentioned my problem... retracting them only after asking myself why I'm not seeing any speed. This usually happens about 15 minutes into the flight.

This discussion led me to give something a try. I have just ordered some 1-3/4" diameter black heat shrink tubing. This will be large enough to fit over the entire johnson bar easily. It is a heavy duty version and comes in 4 ft. lengths. I should get it within a week or so and then will see how it works out and post. Since I don't yet have a pair of jacks, working on that too, I plan to take her up and slide it over the bar then land and finish the heat shrinking etc. It has too look better than what it looks like now. We'll see. Tom

I agree, but by the same token, I'm guessing that the extra tire/gear wear and tear caused by a flaps up TO is equally trivial.

I stopped using TO flaps about 25 years ago. I'm just lazy, one less thing to do after take off. Besides it takes off smoother without flaps. You don't have to rotate, just drive it down the runway and the next thing you know you're flying!

This is the answer I was looking for. Once airborn beyond the point of landing safely,gear up. PROC and clear of obstacles,flaps up.

Chris, I owned a 201 for about 10 years and then traded for a 2004 Ovation 2. I can't write the book that I have in my head right here, but while the 201 is cheaper to operate, the Ovation 2 can be flown LOP at ~11-12 gph block to block (vs. 10 gph for the 201). If flying by yourself, you can quite easily climb to 17,000', burn 10.8-11,1 gph and cruise at 168-171 Kt ROP at 2,400 rpm. I have A/C to slow me down a bit while it sounds like you'd need De-Ice to slow you down a bit. While every airplane is a compromise, you have greater capability due to the flexibility of the Ovation 2. You can pack in ~100 gallons of fuel or have more room for passengers. That all being said, if $$ are a significant concern, buy a well maintained 201. They are both great planes!

Throw the champions in the garbage bin and put in the tempest ones in as they probably won't pass thee resistants test.

Per my Owners Manual: Flaps--TAKEOFF or as desired. My desire fluctuates with runway surface, condition, obstacles, load and winds; DA is not often a concern where I fly. See the Flap Retraction poll for my philosophy on Takeoff Flaps, I saw that one first. Either way, The Book says to rotate at 65-75 mph, so I usually compromise on 70 mph.

I use TO flaps at short fields for my weight on that departure. Home is 3000' long, normally no flaps unless near gross. A nearby grass strip is 2000', I always use flaps and don't go in or out anywhere near gross--2 people and half tanks is my limit. Positive rate, gear up; clear of obstacles, flaps up is in my Owners Manual. Both are judged looking out the window, with a glance at the IVSI if I'm near gross, hot, windy, worried about DA, etc. Clear of obstacles usually means the trees have gone behind the leading edge and I'm happy with the vertical space betwixt me and them. Positive rate, flaps up could hurt you . . . Not good if you're heavy, high DA or gusty winds . . .

Cleared obstacles, positive rate of climb and before VFe.

Ovation procedure says use flaps at T/O setting... So I do... Best regards, -a-

I always use t/o flaps. Not sure why I would want to keep bouncing down the runway building an extra 5-10 k before rotating?

I never retract my flaps if I have a negative rate of climb (NRC).....

I consider a positive rate of climb (PRoC) to be the absolute determining factor and a MUST before flap retraction. PRoC should be in your poll Mike. You don't you even mention it?! I retract flaps once I have a PRoC and clear of any obstacles. PRoc, gear up, flaps up.

My IA and I overhauled mine. I ended up spending about $14K on it including removal and replacement. That included a centralub cam and a dynamically balanced crank. The cylinders were overhauled and I reused a few of the accessories as they had less than 30 hrs on them.

If there are guys in this forum that are not attracted to sexy beatiful girls that's fine with me, but don't look at me. Instead check with Obama, he is supporting those.

I enjoy seeing a passionate argument on technical issues. For me it crosses the line when the personal insults start flying, or when the technical argument becomes a mantra.