Engine hasn't run in a while. What to do?

[Jamie]

Between work and the lousy weather, my plane hasn't been started in so long I'm beginning to worry about it. I've read that doing a ground run won't get the engine hot enough to do any good, but is it better than letting an engine sit for weeks without being run at all? I'm tempted to go down to the hangar, pull the plane out and run it for 15 minutes or so to get the oil back on all the stuff that could rust, and charge up the battery a bit.

 

Obviously, the best thing to do would be to go fly, but I don't know when that will be.

 

[Cruiser]

many will say that ground run is not going to help. Oil temperature will not let high enough, not long enough time, etc. But you will circulate the engine oil and lube all the internal pieces parts.

 

I would say it can't hurt. Just don't run it too long as the air cooling is not great at idle power.

 

You should have the battery on a BatteryMinder charger long term.

[Marauder]

Between work and the lousy weather, my plane hasn't been started in so long I'm beginning to worry about it. I've read that doing a ground run won't get the engine hot enough to do any good, but is it better than letting an engine sit for weeks without being run at all? I'm tempted to go down to the hangar, pull the plane out and run it for 15 minutes or so to get the oil back on all the stuff that could rust, and charge up the battery a bit. Obviously, the best thing to do would be to go fly, but I don't know when that will be.

If you got 15 minutes, why not try to find 45 and fly it a bit? The concern with ground running it pertains to the temp needed to get the oil hot enough to boil off water. I've been told it was better to let it sit than ground run it. Or even to pull the prop through that some folks do as well.

[Jamie]

If you got 15 minutes, why not try to find 45 and fly it a bit?

 

METAR KHSV 051653Z 16011KT 10SM FEW013 BKN020 OVC032 25/22 A3014

 

I need to get my instrument rating.

[Jamie]

You should have the battery on a BatteryMinder charger long term.

 

I want to, but the hangar has leaks, and I'm not crazy about letting water drip from random places onto the BatteryMinder set up. I'd tell them about the leaks, except I'm not sure where the water is coming in. It's a metal roof with a truss type structure made of metal pipe that randomizes the leak location (water drips onto pipes, runs some distance, then drops).  And they raised the rent recently.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

don't need an instrument ticket to do touch and goes or full stop taxi backs in wx like that. If your going to go to the air port to run the engine go the next step and fly her

[Sable1]

Or grab an instructor and go poke holes in the clouds. To me the extra few bucks for the instructor would be worth it. And it's a lot of fun.

[201er]

Let's ask the dentist about camguard.

[Alan Fox]

Camguard Schmamguard.......You need to get it hot enough to boil off the moisture , or the water mixes with byproducts of combustion and makes acid...That would be oil temps of at least 180 190 degrees....

[fantom]

What is 'a while'?

Camguard can't hurt and a fast ground run won't help. Instructor or pattern work, both good suggestions.

I don't enjoy flying just to put time on the engine but I do it. Except when I was having my avionics upgrade, and when I was having it painted I don't think she's ever gone more than two weeks without at least a 30 minute flight.

The are lots of planes I know of that have sat for many months with no apparent ill effect but why press your luck?

[jetdriven]

many will say that ground run is not going to help. Oil temperature will not let high enough, not long enough time, etc. But you will circulate the engine oil and lube all the internal pieces parts.

 

I would say it can't hurt. Just don't run it too long as the air cooling is not great at idle power.

 

You should have the battery on a BatteryMinder charger long term.

 

We try really hard not to let our plane sit more than 14 days. If it looks like it is going to, start and run at 1000-1200 RPM for 60 seconds to coat everything again with oil. No longer than that, or else you introduce moisture into the engine.  Its impossible to get the oil temp hot enough to boil off moisture on the ground, hence the quick 60 seconds then shut down, to minimize the moisture. The second 14 days it must be flown.

[201er]

The longest my plane sat under my ownership was 2 months. And that's when the engine was out for replacement because it sat too much with the previous owner.

[aaronk25]

We try really hard not to let our plane sit more than 14 days. If it looks like it is going to, start and run at 1000-1200 RPM for 60 seconds to coat everything again with oil. No longer than that, or else you introduce moisture into the engine. Its impossible to get the oil temp hot enough to boil off moisture on the ground, hence the quick 60 seconds then shut down, to minimize the moisture. The second 14 days it must be flown.

He is dead on even if a 60 sec run introduces a little moisture its better than letting it sit. Camgaurd will help combat any moisture you do get. Great stuff.

[Greg]

camguard and the instructor,  If the instructor is not a double i,  make sure he has a current IFR and go along for the ride.

[danb35]

The BatteryMINDER is rainproof.  I leave mine out in my shade hangar (i.e., sheltered, but not enclosed) regularly without any trouble.

[aviatoreb]

We try really hard not to let our plane sit more than 14 days. If it looks like it is going to, start and run at 1000-1200 RPM for 60 seconds to coat everything again with oil. No longer than that, or else you introduce moisture into the engine.  Its impossible to get the oil temp hot enough to boil off moisture on the ground, hence the quick 60 seconds then shut down, to minimize the moisture. The second 14 days it must be flown.

 

I'm going to try that next time Byron.

 

Most of the year I am able to fly my airplane at least once per week ("if I want to or not..." but I always want to...I call it "walking the dog" when I fly just to keep the airplane happy...and the me the pilot training if I do not have a proper flight to fly somewhere).  But the winter seems to always contrive against me at some point.  Seems like Jan or Feb each year a combination of snowy skies and snow blocked runways and taxiways has blocked me in for 3 weeks or so at least once each winter.  I will try your system Byron for such a scenario.  Imagine me digging through 3 feet deep of snow just far enough in front of my hangar to get the airplane out and run it for 60 seconds!

 

Besides that - I too am a believer in running my tanis full time to raise the cowl temps well above ambient to dry out the air (full cylinder band set - not just oil heater).  I know this is controversial....in debate with one friend I did put a digital humidity sensor into various spots in and around the engine to confirm that the air was dryer than ambient and it was much much drier.  That was like 2 years ago.

[jetdriven]

Eric, you might try getting ahold of Don Muncy and duplicating his engine dryer. I would feel alright with a Continental leaving that thing on and keeping it dry inside.  Lots of Bonanza guys use them with good results. You can also inspect and replace lifters in a Continental engine relatively easy, although they aren't know for going bad.

[DonMuncy]

Most of the commercial engine dryers are built with small aquarium pumps which move a very small amount of air continuously. I built mine with a larger compressor which move a bunch of air in a short period of time. I admit that my use of 5 minutes daily is not scientifically based. If someone can figure out a way to determine a good quantification for how much air movement sould suffice, I am willing to learn.

[aviatoreb]

Eric, you might try getting ahold of Don Muncy and duplicating his engine dryer. I would feel alright with a Continental leaving that thing on and keeping it dry inside.  Lots of Bonanza guys use them with good results. You can also inspect and replace lifters in a Continental engine relatively easy, although they aren't know for going bad.

 

Hi Byron.  Erik with a k.  :-)

 

I'm sorry if I am repeating what you are saying - I am trying to figure which is the which and the that you mean since I want to understand what you are saying, so please bear with...

 

By leaving that thing on - you mean Don Muncy's dryer?  But you don't like the idea of the heater as I do I presume then?

 

Who is Don Muncy and how do I contact him?

 

And the Bonanza use the Don Muncy device with good results you say?

 

On a side note - a small side benefit of the fact that we did a complete top overhaul in March - at 985 hrs - is we got a really good look into the innards/lowers of my engine, and it looks beautifully clean.  Now 60 hours down the road, all broken in, she's running better than ever.

[jetdriven]

Dryer with a heater if you wish since you live in a cold area.  Here is the thread from BT about this:

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=67199&p=740232&hilit=engine+dryer#p740232

 

 

Just PM Don Muncy he can tell you about his setup. 

[DonMuncy]

I'm at d.muncy@sbcglobal.net and/or 214 207-6744 and or pm donmuncy.

[aviatoreb]

I'm at d.muncy@sbcglobal.net and/or 214 207-6744 and or pm donmuncy.

 

Thanks Don, I will send you an email...love to see what you are doing.

[aviatoreb]

Dryer with a heater if you wish since you live in a cold area.  Here is the thread from BT about this:

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=67199&p=740232&hilit=engine+dryer#p740232

 

 

Just PM Don Muncy he can tell you about his setup. 

 

Thanks for the reference Byron.  I have just sent an email to Don.

 

And I read through that beechtalk page now.

 

Here is what I have observed.  If I check my dipstick as I am putting the airplane away - and I always do - I will see a few dabbles of water on the dipstick.  If I leave the dispstick sealed and no heat and I come back the next day - the moisture is still there.  And simply heating alone does nothing as there too the moisture will still be there the next day.  But if I open the dipstick - I open it and raise it ever so slightly to allow a path for air to flow, but I do not remove it, and I heat, then the next day the dipstick, and I am presuming the innards of the engine, is dry as a bone.

 

I interpret what is happening as follows. First thing is the heated air is dryer as the warm air can hold more moisture so it is more capable of absorbing some water. Two, hot air rises.  So heating the engine causes air to rise through the whole engine compartment area.  This is a very slow and gradual air flow that I am presuming passes air through any and all open passages of the insides of the cowl, insides of the engine, and so forth, which is why I crack the oil case/dipstick.  Just 20 or 30 degrees above ambient is enough to cause this effect.  I believe it will whisk away water in the crank case in a matter of hours.

 

If I am correct that this is a dehydrating process, then according to what I read in beech talk, that I should only need to dry it out and after that it is dry enough, I should be able to turn off the process in a few hours.

[orionflt]

Jamie,

My Mooney has been sitting since Sandy came thru and caused damage to my propeller requiring a prop strike inspection. After pulling everything apart I started completeing some major upgrades keeping my plane grounded even after the engine and propeller were reinstalled. instead of preserving the engine (you know, I'll have this back togather in a week or so) I just removed the top plugs and spun the prop by hand for a few minutes once a week, believe it or not you can get 20-30 psi of oil pressure just doing that. (I actually got the oil pressure up to 50 psi just playing around) this will circulate the oil with out the heat that cuases miosture to form in the engine on short runs.

 

Brian

[aaronk25]

Jamie,

My Mooney has been sitting since Sandy came thru and caused damage to my propeller requiring a prop strike inspection. After pulling everything apart I started completeing some major upgrades keeping my plane grounded even after the engine and propeller were reinstalled. instead of preserving the engine (you know, I'll have this back togather in a week or so) I just removed the top plugs and spun the prop by hand for a few minutes once a week, believe it or not you can get 20-30 psi of oil pressure just doing that. (I actually got the oil pressure up to 50 psi just playing around) this will circulate the oil with out the heat that cuases miosture to form in the engine on short runs.

Brian

The cam is only lubricated by splash oil which is why 1000rpms is recommended by alot of maintenance shops immediately after start up as opposed to idling at the slowest possible speed after start. Hand cranking wonnt lubricator the cam or lifter faces.

The main issue as we all know is cam issues, so this still doesn't do anything to help these components. I'd speculate it might actually do more harm because when the engine is turned over the dry liftes against the cam scrape off any rust and then grinds and leaves another shinny surface for the rust to further eat into.

Sitting is a bad deal all the way around.....nice to see so many people putting a lot of thought into this topic though.