Why no run flats?

[chrisk]

I use Stan's on my mountain bike and I forget the stuff in my road bike (both tubeless wheel sets). Both work, but do they leave a mess inside the rim. If you ever need to put a tube back in, it is a job cleaning it all out again. When you consider a road bike is using 120 psi and it can stop the leak, it is pretty impressive

 

 

I suspect the biggest problem with adding any sort of tire sealant, or Run Flat tires is they generally depend on a tubeless tire.  And I am not quite sure how one would take a split rim design and make the rim seal.   Maybe a channel with an O ring?  On the hand, maybe the split rim already has an O ring to make it air tight.  --It's been a while since I have changed a tire on a plane, and never on a Mooney.

 

There are products you can buy, like "fix a flat" that may work.  I would not risk that on my plane.  Who knows what would happen after 4+ hours of -20 degrees, and then a landing.   I'd be more inclined to pull the tube out and patch it, but only if I was stranded in ......  well the Caribbean come to mind.

[Marauder]

There is. You can run conventional tires and find a way to store a spare. I like the run flats simply because you won't be stranded. You can do 50 mph until you find a place to have it repaired. Not sure about the older Vettes, but the new ones run a smaller tire upfront. I have a 19" on the front and 20" on the rear. BTW Jim... With my last avionics upgrade, the financial officer told me to sell my Vette. If you are looking for a 2004, Lemans Blue limited edition with 6,900 original miles and which has NEVER seen rain, let me know. I haven't advertised it yet, but will need to move it this summer. Wow. What a beauty. Glad to hear that conventional tires of that size are still available. I'm surprised that you needed to replace yours already with only 6,900 miles on the clock, though. Thanks for the offer, but I already have a "play" Mustang that used to belong to my dad, so I'll probably be keeping it for the duration. With both my aviation addiction and my two kids to feed, I'll probably have to drive whatever cars there are in my future. It is not hard to find a ultra clean low mileage older C4 in the 10K range. They are the Corvettes that I know and at that price I can turn someone's survivor into my driver without feeling too bad about it. Even this will have to wait, though, until the twins are in college, as for the foreseeable future I will be needing a backseat. As far as the run flats go, after all of these years in aviation the idea of being stuck on the side of the road with a flat tire doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. Even without a spare. Jim

Thanks for comment on the Vette! I do my best to keep it spotless. Heck, it even still has that new car smell inside. As for my tires, they're fine! Unlike some Vette owners I know, once I found out how much they cost to replace, I stayed away from smoking them! When I bought the Vette I looked pretty hard at the Mustang. You couldn't beat the value for the price.

[M016576]

Tire pressure on the hornet was over 225PSI for the carrier; be happy we don't deal with that!!!

Really though, the issue and plug (no pun intended) for tube type tires is the altitude variation, temperature and overall mission of our tires: 60 seconds of rolling for a 3 hour flight (complete with a cold soak at high altitudes). Also weight when it comes to a run flat; those tend to be a big heavier than a regular tire.

If you blow a main, at higher speeds it won't be too bad, but as you slow down it will really pull towards that side. If you've blown your nose tire and know it: keep it off the ground as long as possible.

Remember, a go around is free: if you are still fast, the best answer might be to go around, LEAVE THE GEAR DOWN and set up for a more optimized landing based on the blown tire

[jetdriven]

I had a flat (nose tire) just after landing a few months ago. It was a handfull. It occured just after touching down the nose gear. My rudder pedals just shuttered back and forth full deflection. I was able to slow down and taxi (very slowly)  just clear of the runway and shut down. Luckily a new tube and its good as new. To answer your question :

 

tube $ 45.00

run flat tire on car  $200.00  for plane  $ ?????????? 

According to the Goodyear tire maintenance manual, a tire that has been rolled flat should be scrapped.  We had a pinch flat on the nose tire due to improper installation (reused tube) a year ago and the prop was very close to the ground, perhaps 3" or so.

[aviatoreb]

According to the Goodyear tire maintenance manual, a tire that has been rolled flat should be scrapped.  We had a pinch flat on the nose tire due to improper installation (reused tube) a year ago and the prop was very close to the ground, perhaps 3" or so.

 

Hmmmm....the APs didn't recommend replace tire and it looked to be good shape but then again it flatted while standing so it didn't roll.  I got a new mich. tube only.

 

Yeah - that prop gets pretty low without air in the tire.  I found it spooky. 

[aviatoreb]

Tire pressure on the hornet was over 225PSI for the carrier; be happy we don't deal with that!!!

Remember, a go around is free: if you are still fast, the best answer might be to go around, LEAVE THE GEAR DOWN and set up for a more optimized landing based on the blown tire

 

No kidding that's a lot of pressure.  When I used to race cycling track - velodrome, the best tires were up to 200psi, like the vittoria olympico which is a fine hand made tubular silk Italian tire.  Don't ask me how much.  Too much for a bicycle tire.

 

If you are on rollout and you sense a flat on your nose, then a go around would be quite a bit more difficult than usual wouldn't it to keep it straight while trying to build speed to get those nose back off the ground all the while with prop extra low like 3'' and pointing more than usual at the ground.

 

Of course your advice to keep the weight off the front wheel during a flat is good advice for all landings, not just for flats.

[Earl]

Had a similar experience flying into BNA except I went flat on roll out and could not get off the runway.  Fortunately they had three parallel runways so I only closed one.  Glad it happened when I was going slow because it really pulled to the right when it went flat and did not sound or feel good.  Of course the tire was kaput and they did not have a new one on the field.  Luckily the FBO had a serviceable one that they put on right on the runway.  Messed up my lunch plans with a client and cost me $400.  And then I had to replace the one they put on with a new one when I got back home.  Airplanes and boats........money soaks.......

[M016576]

No kidding that's a lot of pressure. When I used to race cycling track - velodrome, the best tires were up to 200psi, like the vittoria olympico which is a fine hand made tubular silk Italian tire. Don't ask me how much. Too much for a bicycle tire.

If you are on rollout and you sense a flat on your nose, then a go around would be quite a bit more difficult than usual wouldn't it to keep it straight while trying to build speed to get those nose back off the ground all the while with prop extra low like 3'' and pointing more than usual at the ground.

Of course your advice to keep the weight off the front wheel during a flat is good advice for all landings, not just for flats.

Yeah, that's a good point: by the time you realize your front or main tire is blown, you're probably going so slow and the drag is so great that it would be difficult (if not impossible) to go around. In the bigger aircraft, we can power through the blown tire if need be and set up for a customized approach to minimize the chances of going off runway/additional damage, etc.

New plan: stop aircraft safely!

[WardHolbrook]

As always, the best way to deal with a flat is by prevention. The best way to prevent a flat is by proper maintenance - regular checking of tire pressure and things like replacing the tube when you replace the tire, etc. Doing an adequate preflight inspection is also important, some checking, scuffs and cuts are not critical, others are. If you can't tell the difference get your mechanic to explain it to you. Properly maintained and inspected tires seldom, if ever go flat. 

[Rich]

I have used Flight Customs and McCrearys. I feel that they are both good tires but Flight Customs cost a good bit more. If I remember correctly, an article (years ago) in Aviation Consumer found both tires to withstand similar number of landings, but Flight Customs were better to use on hangar queens since they dry rotted slower. I like my McCrearys and am now due for another set. It will be McCrearys again.

[Marauder]

I have used Flight Customs and McCrearys. I feel that they are both good tires but Flight Customs cost a good bit more. If I remember correctly, an article (years ago) in Aviation Consumer found both tires to withstand similar number of landings, but Flight Customs were better to use on hangar queens since they dry rotted slower. I like my McCrearys and am now due for another set. It will be McCrearys again.

Thanks Rich. Since no one else chimed in on recent experiences, I was getting worried that I was indeed a Guinea Pig oink, oink.

[stevesm20b]

They do make tubeless tires for airplanes!