LFOD Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 I am talking to a seller about a Rocket and it has an interesting history. Apparently the alternator failed in 2008, which required a new crankshaft and some other work on the bottom end (not sure what one would have to do with the other- an engine shop in SLC, UT did the work. Apparently, the cost of that incident forced the owner to allow the annual to lapse until DEC 2012. I think the aircraft was repossessed during that time. I was able to find some interesting documents online filed with the district court that showed the finance company seeking to repo the plane. The engine has about 550 SMOH since 1993 when it was converted. My question is if you would feel comfortable knowing that a shop looked at the engine back in 2008 and replaced major components on the bottom end, but then it sat for four years. What would you have done during the pre-buy to alleviate fears of major engine issues? I have a call into the folks who did the annual in 2012 and I will see what they say. I think the price reflects the issue with the plane, but an OH within six months of purchasing the plane would most likely come with a divorce. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Here is the aircraft: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/listing?id=1644847 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 The alternator is driven by a ring gear on the crank inside the front of the case. If an alternator comes apart pieces will fall into the engine. When Continental built the original engine for my Rocket the person that did the assembly failed to bend over the tabs that keep the bolts that hold the ring gear to the crank from comming loose. The six bolts backed off causing the alternator to come apart inside the engine. At 80 hours Continental paid Rocket to install a new reman engine. So yes a bad alternator can damage the insides on a TSIO-520NB. Google a picture and you will see what I mean. You can see the alternator in the right cowl opening in one of these pictures on TAP. Done properly replacing a crank should take care of issue. 2000TT is quite low. A good pre buy is always a good idea. Looks good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Fox Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 It had a gear collapse in 1989... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFOD Posted May 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 The alternator is driven by a ring gear on the crank inside the front of the case. If an alternator comes apart pieces will fall into the engine. When Continental built the original engine for my Rocket the person that did the assembly failed to bend over the tabs that keep the bolts that hold the ring gear to the crank from comming loose. The six bolts backed off causing the alternator to come apart inside the engine. At 80 hours Continental paid Rocket to install a new reman engine. So yes a bad alternator can damage the insides on a TSIO-520NB. Google a picture and you will see what I mean. You can see the alternator in the right cowl opening in one of these pictures on TAP. Done properly replacing a crank should take care of issue. 2000TT is quite low. A good pre buy is always a good idea. Looks good to me. I see now, thanks. It had a gear collapse in 1989... That happened before the conversion, so I don't see it as too much of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mazer Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 The divorce would cost a lot more than the OH. If you can't afford the usual cost of ownership (meaning way more than you expect and always at the worst possible time), maybe you should look at something a little less high maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjkirsch Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Everyone has their own (financial) pain threshold. I try and look at the purchase in relation to the market and can I sell it at some point if I wanted to. The plane is cheap enough that it might be worth a very intensive inspection and some repairs and still be ok from a market value standpoint. It has a waas GPS, decent autopilot, standby vacuum and the paint and interior look usable. You typically won't find that and a low time airframe and engine at this asking price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 I agree with gjkirsch... looks decent enough on the surface to warrant a good PPI. Maxwell is close enough if it is located in the 214 area code. If it sat in N. Texas for all those years, perhaps it isn't too bad vs. sitting on the coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFOD Posted May 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Thanks so far, Ill let everyone know how it goes. One other question: If your mission is equally split between local flights/fly-ins/hamburger runs type stuff and longer (over 500NM) cross countries is the Rocket an OK choice? Meaning, can you pull it back to 252 fuel flows for Sunday morning runs without hurting the engine. I can only find 55% power settings on the Rocket page. I really enjoyed pulling the power on my 201 WAY BACK, and just cruising early in the AM. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 A Rocket can do anything any other Mooney can do and more. Most impressive thing it can do is climb, I have seen 1500 fpm @ 26,000'. Second most impressive thing it can do is lift almost anything you can close the doors on. Third most impressive thing it does is burn gas, flight plan 20GPH and 200 knots. You are right backed off you can get 231/252 speeds and fuel flows. The Rocket chart is conservative in its promises and well rich of peak, so there is some room to save fuel if you are vigilant. The way Rocket set them up they run cool even at altitude. Remember 55% on a Rocket is more power than your 201 (85%) can produce in anything other than a sea level take off. While IFR training/practice I would fly around at 15" of power for most of the time. Living in Baton Rouge you may not really "need" the altitude capabilities I miss now flying an MSE out of Denver. There are no mountains within the 500 mile radius you specify. But as they say "Power corrupts" and a Rocket will spoil you for anything less than an Acclaim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Imagine Rocket power with the Acclaim Type S aero improvements! 250 KTAS? I bet it would do that or more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Imagine Rocket power with the Acclaim Type S aero improvements! 250 KTAS? I bet it would do that or more... Mooney claimed 242 kts @ 25,000' while Rocket claimed 238 kts @ 24,000' Not much difference in the real world. The only significant aerodynamic advantage is the cowl. While the Acclaim is slightly larger and heavier with less useful. Both engines are rated at 310HP. Rocket chose to turn the governor down 25 RPM on a 310HP engine to get the "305" for the marketing dept. A 310 Rocket sounds too much like a Cessna product. A "Lopresti" type cowl would allow the Rocket to exceed the Acclaim by few knots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Have you looked at the one on the controller http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1981-MOONEY-M20K-231/1255725.htm It is worth looking through the logs to give an idea for maintenance expectations. For me, things like custom engine mounts and exhaust seems to push it beyond my comfort zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I thought the Acclaim was 280 hp? Or did they bump it up like the O3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 On the Acclaim Type S, Mooney asks the Continental engine to deliver just 280 hp, this from an engine type that cranks out 310 horses in at least one other current airplane. Given the Mooney's sleek lines, 280 horses is plenty. The airplane is very fast, as fast as some turboprop twins, in fact. Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/pilot-reports/pistons/mooney-acclaim-type-s#JAfU4J77UmQ2OkFB.99 You are right I misread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWinter Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 Another year w/ my M20 and the hunt for a Rocket begins..Some business projects prevent it from a reality this year, but after looking at several different planes and comparing 200hp vs. a 225hp is not really worth the $ unless there is more motive than the HP. Look at the rocket and get 280-300hp..Best bang for the buck...if you can afford twice the fuel burn, but then again, if the fuel cost is a factor when buying a Rocket or not buying it's probably not the best choice for a budget. I love the Mooney brand and the exclusive quirky nature of them. Would love more payload in my M20 and I love the speed. The Rocket is a great choice. Keep an open mind and get a very good inspection..Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pursell Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 The divorce would cost a lot more than the OH. If you can't afford the usual cost of ownership (meaning way more than you expect and always at the worst possible time), maybe you should look at something a little less high maintenance. Are you speaking about the plane or the wife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mazer Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 Since I figure my wife owns me, as opposed to the other way around, the cost of ownership would be her problem! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awful_Charlie Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 Since I figure my wife owns me, as opposed to the other way around, the cost of ownership would be her problem! You've obviously not got a cat! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFOD Posted May 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 On the Acclaim Type S, Mooney asks the Continental engine to deliver just 280 hp, this from an engine type that cranks out 310 horses in at least one other current airplane. Given the Mooney's sleek lines, 280 horses is plenty. The airplane is very fast, as fast as some turboprop twins, in fact. Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/pilot-reports/pistons/mooney-acclaim-type-s#JAfU4J77UmQ2OkFB.99 You are right I misread. Ha. I was reading through all of the Acclaim reviews this morning.... I certainly could not pay the entry fee, but the Rocket is pretty darn good substitute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd32322 Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 Btw if you want some interesting news articles about the rocket, look at this overpriced ebay rocket. It has some old and interesting articles in the ad: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mooney-Rocket-Nicest-Available-Price-slashed-Must-sell-/171033588985?pt=Motors_Aircraft&hash=item27d26574f9#ht_2598wt_1021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 That particular plane (N777MT) has been for sale since the avionics were state of the art. It has been overpriced for at least 10 years. It was for sale in 2003 when I sold my Rocket and it is still for sale. Lasar lists it at $129000 http://www.lasar.com/w/id/114/new-plane-details.asp ASO lists it at $179000 http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=113627 Here its listed for $199000 http://robert5.com/aircraft/1980-mooney-other/?lang=en In 2008 it was on Aero Trader for $245000 http://books.google.com/books?id=jX0BLfK26cYC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=n777mt&source=bl&ots=ykgf5qwwAm&sig=wxVUOfg3hBIrwjSTH4vIG0vovB8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=irCHUcCXFqGSyQGZsoGwDA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=n777mt&f=false Trade a plane had it earlier this year for $159000. I am not sure if it ever was for sale. When I first saw this plane in Mapa log years ago I was a bit envious. Now I see it every now and then and think it is quite the joke. In this Ebay ad the owner says it is worth $280,000 but he "slashed' the price to $179000 for a "quick" sale. High time 5100 recent prop strike 20 year old paint and interior. Discontinued avionics. About $100,000 value....maybe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Nice J's get 100 grand. I would think a Rocket would be worth more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Nice J's get 100 grand. I would think a Rocket would be worth more. I would say 128k is at least a fair deal for that rocket... The next closest in price costs about 150k. For the difference, you could spruce her up quite a bit. Then again, that peach might be a lemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Given the shockingly high price to overhaul an IO-360 Lycoming, I dont think the Rocket's engine hourly reserve is a whole lot more is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd32322 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Given the shockingly high price to overhaul an IO-360 Lycoming, I dont think the Rocket's engine hourly reserve is a whole lot more is it? The published TBO is 1600 hours. Factory reman is 48k, zephyr overhaul is 35k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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