Seatbelt Airbag system for M20J / M20K

[richardheitzman]

Hello everyone,

 

Please see the Poll for Seatbelt Airbag retorfit kits for M20J and M20K ONLY.

 

This is not for any other aircraft. The reason being is that the engineering is only completed for M20J and K. The earlier models have not been reviewed.

 

Please take the poll and if you want more information send me an email at rheitzman@amsafe.com

 

Just a FYI, in the past, AmSafe has set the bar pretty high to "self fund" development for kits. Usually we are asking for between 30 - 50 confirmed deposits before moving into development. So if you are REALLY interested then please select YES in the poll. The standard deposit is 50% of the kit price ( I usually have a introductory price and knock off about 20% of the price).

 

Thank you!

 

Richard Heitzman

Sales Manager

AmSafe

[carusoam]

Richard,

I should be interested at a proper price. But I don't know enough about the AmSafe system. Such as availability for Ovations.

I may have forgotten...

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

Hi Richard,  I contacted you almost 2 years ago to ask you if you had an M20K amsafe solution in the pipeline.  I remain interested today.  As for deposit, can you say something of what kind of timeline we would be looking at in terms of when you would need the money and then when you would expect to be able to present the finished product?

[Piloto]

Richard

 

I applaud your efforts to enhance safety. The price may be reasonable for higher cost airplanes that are already equipped with the latest technology and for new airplanes. But for over 20 year old piston singles is a tough one. This market is striving on how to get free weather in the cockpit which is another safety concern. For me one of my concerns is the airbag suddenly blowing up while in-flight. I am sure yours is very safe. But I just dropped my XM\WX in favor of free wx on my Samsung S3. If the worse comes to happens I will have to resort on my pillows just like the airlines do.

 

José    

[davidsguerra]

i would buy it if it could be added on to my amsafe inertial reel seatbelts i just had installed this year.

[richardheitzman]

Richard,

I should be interested at a proper price. But I don't know enough about the AmSafe system. Such as availability for Ovations.

I may have forgotten...

Best regards,

-a-

Right now the system is available for all long body Mooney aircraft. you can see more information at www.amsafe.com

[richardheitzman]

i would buy it if it could be added on to my amsafe inertial reel seatbelts i just had installed this year.

Nope, we replace your entire system with new belts + airbag incorporate into the belt. You can sell those nice new seatbelts to some one here

[richardheitzman]

Richard

 

I applaud your efforts to enhance safety. The price may be reasonable for higher cost airplanes that are already equipped with the latest technology and for new airplanes. But for over 20 year old piston singles is a tough one. This market is striving on how to get free weather in the cockpit which is another safety concern. For me one of my concerns is the airbag suddenly blowing up while in-flight. I am sure yours is very safe. But I just dropped my XM\WX in favor of free wx on my Samsung S3. If the worse comes to happens I will have to resort on my pillows just like the airlines do.

 

José    

AmSafe airbag systems, both commercial and GA, have over 250 million flight hours and climbing. We have never had an inadvertant deployment. We are certified to a critical safety standard, which is the toughest standard you can receive by the FAA. Even if the bag did deploy, the system deploys up through your arms, and in front of you, and deflates within 3 - 5 seconds. It is designed to NOT move your arms away from the flight controls.

 

Jose I tell people all the time, don't write the check for airbags as you are positioning yourself for a deadstick landing into a grove of oak trees. We are a safety system. We are here in case you need us, and we hope you never will. but remember 80% of ALL general avaition accidents happen at the airport, in take off, and landing.The  number one injury and the number one fatality head and torso trauma.

 

I know times are tough, and a lot of aircraft owners are pinching pennies. That is why I am here to see if we can put together a program. If we can't then we can't and that is ok.

[richardheitzman]

Hi Richard,  I contacted you almost 2 years ago to ask you if you had an M20K amsafe solution in the pipeline.  I remain interested today.  As for deposit, can you say something of what kind of timeline we would be looking at in terms of when you would need the money and then when you would expect to be able to present the finished product?

Since the egineering effort is done, and all we have to do is produce the system, submit the paper work to the Feds, and get approvals, it should not be more than 2-3 months.

[carusoam]

Richard,

Let your folks know that the iPad users are not able to see the video or find the pricing...

There making me go downstairs into the cold to get educated.

It's tough getting the word out to the customer.

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

Since the egineering effort is done, and all we have to do is produce the system, submit the paper work to the Feds, and get approvals, it should not be more than 2-3 months.

 

Richard, I'm sold and I hope you get enough on board to proceed. PM me with specifics.

 

Folks, my take It is expensive and especially if I think of it in terms of percentage of my hull value, but it is less expensive if I think of it as an investment to maybe save my noggin.

[carusoam]

So,

 

I went downstairs and watched the videos and the interview with Mr. Black.

 

Found the website.  And now I'm looking for the details for the Ovation.

 

Richard,

 

Can you point me in the direction of some Ovation details for the AmSafe seatbelt airbags?

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[jetdriven]

Can anyone quantify how much safer these airbags are over a plain fixed strap shoulder harness?  4 grand is a lot of money to prevent chest bruising.

[davidsguerra]

a sternal fracture has a significant mortality rate

[aviatoreb]

a sternal fracture has a significant mortality rate

 

No kidding - I cracked my sternum on a steering wheel - while wearing a seatbelt by the way, when I was 17 years old.

[jetdriven]

I would just like to know if anyone has been in a crash where the airbag made a difference. We all know they make us feel safer, but really, where is the data?

 

People have been crashing their cars for decades with only a shoulder belt. Then airbags came along, and we know that in certain crashes, the airbag decelrates your head over a 12-14" travel.  Facial and head trauma reduction is the real benefit of sterring wheel airbags.  However, these airbag seatbelts fire the bag forward out of the belt, but it is only a few inches deep.  I fail to see how they prevent sternum damage or reduce injuries. They market it for "problem installations" to meet the 16G certification. We all know that a proper sholder belt can protect you to 20G.

So, call me skeptical, but I fail to see how these may make a difference in most cases.

[richardheitzman]

Can anyone quantify how much safer these airbags are over a plain fixed strap shoulder harness?  4 grand is a lot of money to prevent chest bruising.

According to the NTSB report released last year regarding GA and seatbelts. Installing a shoulder harness increased your likelyhood of surviving a "survivable" crash by 50%. Adding seatbelt airbag increases your safety factor by another 30%. Also, NTSB and FAA reports have confirmed that Airbags prevent head and torso trauma. In other words, in the 170+ aviation accident in the GA marketplace that had airbags on board, we prevented head and torso trauma, and did not induce any injuries. Of those 170 accidents AmSafe airbags are attributed to saving 17 lives.

[richardheitzman]

I would just like to know if anyone has been in a crash where the airbag made a difference. We all know they make us feel safer, but really, where is the data?

 

People have been crashing their cars for decades with only a shoulder belt. Then airbags came along, and we know that in certain crashes, the airbag decelrates your head over a 12-14" travel.  Facial and head trauma reduction is the real benefit of sterring wheel airbags.  However, these airbag seatbelts fire the bag forward out of the belt, but it is only a few inches deep.  I fail to see how they prevent sternum damage or reduce injuries. They market it for "problem installations" to meet the 16G certification. We all know that a proper sholder belt can protect you to 20G.

So, call me skeptical, but I fail to see how these may make a difference in most cases.

The system that is used in the Mooney aircraft is called a Barrier bag. What this does is fill the area in front of you and reduce your focal point of impact and distribute the force of impact over a large area. The inflator bottle sends the gas to the bag, at 7000 PSI, the bag inflates in less than 45 mili seconds, and starts venting gas, your impact in the bag is vented / resisted by the inflation process.

 

Car airbag systems are designed to push you back into your seat and keep you out of the strike zone. AmSafe airbags absorbe the force of the impact. Two different ways to achieve the same results, you stay alive.

[aviatoreb]

The system that is used in the Mooney aircraft is called a Barrier bag. What this does is fill the area in front of you and reduce your focal point of impact and distribute the force of impact over a large area. The inflator bottle sends the gas to the bag, at 7000 PSI, the bag inflates in less than 45 mili seconds, and starts venting gas, your impact in the bag is vented / resisted by the inflation process.

 

Car airbag systems are designed to push you back into your seat and keep you out of the strike zone. AmSafe airbags absorbe the force of the impact. Two different ways to achieve the same results, you stay alive.

 

Hi Richard,

 

What is your position on the safety of the use of amsafe seatbelts by undersized people - for example my 65 lb 11 year old?  I know that for the car system, it is specifically recommended that undersized people not be in airbag equipped seats.

[Piloto]

Richard

 

Is the $4480 plus installation for the two front seats only or the four seats?

 

José

[Piloto]

According to the NTSB report released last year regarding GA and seatbelts. Installing a shoulder harness increased your likelyhood of surviving a "survivable" crash by 50%. Adding seatbelt airbag increases your safety factor by another 30%. Also, NTSB and FAA reports have confirmed that Airbags prevent head and torso trauma. In other words, in the 170+ aviation accident in the GA marketplace that had airbags on board, we prevented head and torso trauma, and did not induce any injuries. Of those 170 accidents AmSafe airbags are attributed to saving 17 lives.

What happened in the other 153 accidents, they died?

 

José

[RJBrown]

Polls like this one bug me. The third question has no valid answer but we are forced by the format to give one.

Not interested at any "saleable" price just wasn't there. If you gave it to me at your cost I wouldn't pay to have it put in. I'd sell it off to get something else.

I am sick of the "wear your bicycle helmet" over protective society we are becoming. When our Federal government can tell me my chrome wiper blades are too dangerous and must be painted flat black we have gone too far. I am sure there is a lobby to force airbags into every new plane out there. Trying to turn an option into a forced sale. I have to hold down 2 levers on my lawn mower just to make it go cause some idiot stuck his hand where it doesn't belong. We all pay our "idiot tax" when we buy stuff that has mandated safety equiptment.

PS

I guess I am just OTR today, sorry

[Marauder]

Polls like this one bug me. The third question has no valid answer but we are forced by the format to give one. Not interested at any "saleable" price just wasn't there. If you gave it to me at your cost I wouldn't pay to have it put in. I'd sell it off to get something else. I am sick of the "wear your bicycle helmet" over protective society we are becoming. When our Federal government can tell me my chrome wiper blades are too dangerous and must be painted flat black we have gone too far. I am sure there is a lobby to force airbags into every new plane out there. Trying to turn an option into a forced sale. I have to hold down 2 levers on my lawn mower just to make it go cause some idiot stuck his hand where it doesn't belong. We all pay our "idiot tax" when we buy stuff that has mandated safety equiptment. PS I guess I am just OTR today, sorry

I kind of liked the memory trip down regulatory lane... Brought back memories of the 1973 "safety" bumper, Libby lights and the rest of them.

[aviatoreb]

Polls like this one bug me. The third question has no valid answer but we are forced by the format to give one.

Not interested at any "saleable" price just wasn't there. If you gave it to me at your cost I wouldn't pay to have it put in. I'd sell it off to get something else.

I am sick of the "wear your bicycle helmet" over protective society we are becoming. When our Federal government can tell me my chrome wiper blades are too dangerous and must be painted flat black we have gone too far. I am sure there is a lobby to force airbags into every new plane out there. Trying to turn an option into a forced sale. I have to hold down 2 levers on my lawn mower just to make it go cause some idiot stuck his hand where it doesn't belong. We all pay our "idiot tax" when we buy stuff that has mandated safety equiptment.

PS

I guess I am just OTR today, sorry

 

I hear you RJ.  But no one is saying you have to buy this thing.  I want to buy this thing and currently I do not have the right to do so because I need an STC.  If an STC comes then I will have the right to buy one and you will continue to have the right not to buy one.

 

I wear a helmet every time I ride my bike, but I bike race - I have seen many helmets break on peoples heads when they crash and the person walked away every time - well sometimes they limped away dazed.  I am a skilled bike rider, but I wear a helmet every time, and I was an early helmet adopter amongst my bike riding friends 20 years ago when it was euro-cool to wear a cotton bike-racer cap instead and ride in big groups at 40mph.

[richardheitzman]

Hi Richard,

 

What is your position on the safety of the use of amsafe seatbelts by undersized people - for example my 65 lb 11 year old?  I know that for the car system, it is specifically recommended that undersized people not be in airbag equipped seats.

As this is a barrier bag, your daughter is fine. We cover the 5% smallest female to the 95% largest male.