Earl Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 Speed brakes are necessary equipment on a Rocket. Using 55% power, the minimum recommended by Rocket, you are still making 168HP. More power than my MSE can make here in Colorado. Many times 1000FPM will not meet the decent rate needed to follow ATC assignments. Before I installed speed brakes on N231NH I flew a maintenance check flight from APA to COS and 26,000'. It took only 18 minutes, leveling 3 times for center, to get up that high. It took more than twice that time to come back down. If you have ever flown in to APA via the larks arrival you know what center can do to you. They set you up for a decent as lf you intend to land at DEN then slam dunk you into APA when less than 5 miles away from cassie. Have you ever been "established" on the ILS at 300 knots? Not a pretty sight. On the other hand I agree with Byron, not needed on a J. I would not add them to my J at any price. Really good point about being established on an ILS at high speeds. During one of my IFR refresher flights with a CFII I was cleared for the ILS from a hold 3'000 feet above the min altitude of the IAF and didn't handle it very well. Suffice it to say I started down the GS at around 130kts ground speed and was wondering why I could not stay established at my usual 500 fpm descent rate. After chasing the GS for a while my friendly helper said, "Hey dummy, how about using your speed brakes to slow down a little". Just one of those experiences where you learn a lot by not managing a situation very well. In actual conditions I was clearly headed for a missed approach. It is indeed a funny thing about flying that we can get ourselves into a place where we have all the tools to get it sorted out and just don't do it. As a final note, I wasn't particularly trying to slam the post that mentioned disliking having to use speed brakes. I only use them once in a while and more often than not when I am being dumped into an airport by Atlanta approach. That happens to me on a fairly regular basis and is life inside class B airspace. I have just noticed over the years quite a few posts that implied that speed brakes were for weenies. Just defending my manhood....so to speak. No intent to offend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 During one of my IFR refresher flights with a CFII I was cleared for the ILS from a hold 3'000 feet above the min altitude of the IAF and didn't handle it very well. Suffice it to say I started down the GS at around 130kts ground speed and was wondering why I could not stay established at my usual 500 fpm descent rate. I'm finishing up my IR now and if my instructor saw me flying a hold at 130 I'd never hear the end of it for the remainder of the flight and the debriefing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 In a J you can hold at 90 knots, and with careful prop, mixture, and MP settings (2100, peak EGT, 15"), you can get the fuel flow down to 3.9 GPH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 I'm finishing up my IR now and if my instructor saw me flying a hold at 130 I'd never hear the end of it for the remainder of the flight and the debriefing. I wasn't holding at 130kts. I was cleared for the ILS and had to make a quick descent over a short distance so I was fast when I started down the glideslope. My CFII would have whacked me as well but this was one of those days when everyone and their brother was flying instrument approaches and so I was forced to hold 3,000' above at a VOR fairly close to the airport. So I had to lose that altitude in a short distance while getting configured for the approach. Caused me to pick up a lot of airspeed as Mooneys love to do. Simple solution would have been to use the speed brakes and drop the gear early but I just didn't do it for some reason and found myself starting down the GS at 130 kts. Big difference than the 90kts I shoot for and the reason my 500fpm wasn't working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 I'm finishing up my IR now..... We've been hearing that for over a year, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 We've been hearing that for over a year, Mike Nope, don't think so. A year ago I was deep in the thick of it. I'm now working on refining certain skill areas but am pretty much ready to take the plunge. Had it not been for vacations, business travel and several maintenance down times (some scheduled, some not), I would have taken the check ride in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu damaschin Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 I don't have speed brakes but I will definetly install them this winter...! Are they usefull for a short landing flare also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z W Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 The speed brakes do not seem to have much (or any) impact on the landing flare. As your airspeed lowers and your angle of attack increases, they become less effective. I've landed with them up and down, and once you get below about 100 or 90 knots, there does not seem to be a difference. They are a great tool for coming down from altitude. In the pattern, you just have to watch your speed on short final to shorten your landing distance. 5 knots too fast and you will float, regardless of speed brakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu damaschin Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Thanks for the answer Zane Williams! I am already familiar with the landing technics, but I thought that by installing the speed brakes I could use them fort short landings also. I will install them anyway for the more flexibility they offer in descent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Their effects wear off at lower speeds. A relation of something like v^2. They are very effective at slowing down from high speeds. They would need to be much larger to be effective at low speeds. So it appears to be a safety issue. If they are to get stuck in the open position, they don't effect the landing speed as much. My thoughts, I didn't design them, ymmv etc... -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu damaschin Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Their effects wear off at lower speeds. A relation of something like v^2. They are very effective at slowing down from high speeds. They would need to be much larger to be effective at low speeds. So it appears to be a safety issue. If they are to get stuck in the open position, they don't effect the landing speed as much. My thoughts, I didn't design them, ymmv etc... -a- Thanks also for the input...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.