Gear up landing

[carusoam]

Interesting pic btransue...

What do you have there?

Best regards,

-a-

[Utah20Gflyer]

I'm a low time Mooney pilot but I don't get why people often claim mooneys are hard to slow down.  With just a little bit of planning they slow down great.  Personally I start slowing pulling power and adding nose up trim 5 to 10 minutes before I arrive at the airport. I arrive on altitude at pattern speed.  I never have to use the gear, flaps or speed brakes(don't have them) to slow down.  Maybe it's cause I fly a G model, the slowest of the mooneys. 

I flew with a guy one time in a J model who would come into the middle of the downwind doing 140 knots, seemed to me that was the hard way to do things.   Some planning ahead makes it nice and easy and adds some consistency that will make it less likely that you will gear up.   In the end you probably only land a minute later than if you came blazing into the pattern at near cruise speed.  

Not an instructor, just personal experience from someone with very little personal experience in a Mooney. 

[ArtVandelay]

Js and up are slicker and there’s a limitation (RPMs/MP) when reducing power.
If you fly IFR, you don’t have luxury of dropping speed or altitude 5-10 minutes out.
And some airports you need to come over a mountain range or neighboring airspace, so forced to stay higher than normal.
I can slow down or come down... I can’t do both.

[Guest]

That’s an old wife’s tale that just perpetuates the rumour of how hard Mooney’s are to fly.  Only a true aviation god can fly one.  

Clarence

[A64Pilot]

It really is just simply different than most other aircraft. The fact that your not a high time pilot in other aircraft is likely why you don’t understand, because you don’t have many other frames of reference, that can be an advantage sometimes as you don’t have other habits to unlearn.

‘Drop the gear on a C-210, followed by full flap and at idle you can descend like an auto rotating helicopter, not in a Mooney or if you do your going so fast that no way you can land.

I did my Commercial instrument training in a then brand new Mooney AT, which I believe was just a J with a different paint job.

But the school wouldn’t allow you to drop gear first before flaps, because they were training Airline wanna be’s and apparently regional turbo props and I guess now jets too you get approach flaps first and they didn’t want to ingraine Mooney habits of gear first.

‘I can tell you that if you don’t have something down at the outer marker, it’s unlikely that your going to make the approach, point the nose down on a J and it doesn’t slow down, it’s like a sled on ice.

‘The AT had those wonderful speed brakes, but they woudnt allow us to use them either.

‘The School syllabus was written so that you did your private in 152’s, got your instrument in Cherokee 180’s and Commercial in the Mooney’s.

‘I didn’t follow the syllabus. I saw no need in the private license so I didn’t take that ride, to get instrument rating you had to have a pilots license in Category so I got the Commercial before the instrument ride, and I didn’t like the Cherokee, flew like a truck, so I paid extra and did both instrument and Commercial in the Mooney.

‘I was punished for my transgressions, I got the instrument ride from Hell, because I was told that as a Commercial pilot I was supposed to demonstrate Commercial knowledge and proficiency of instrument procedures, but I survived

Edited May 21, 2021 by A64Pilot

[Guest]

I guess I didn’t learn much in my 700 hours in my E models.  They seemed easy to lose altitude at a controlled airspeed. My hundreds of hours in my Comanche 400 with a cruise speed 70 mph over gear extension speed and 95 over flap speed didn’t teach me much about speed control and planning either.

With my lack of skill I’m glad I bought a Piper Comanche.

Clarence

[A64Pilot]

No one is saying it’s hard or that you have to be a pilot God, but it is different than most other aircraft. Most aircraft you can slow and descend, a Mooney it’s best to slow first, get dirtied up and then descend, better on the engine too as you don’t have to go to real lower power. I’m not saying drop gear at 10,000 feet, but its good to have them down prior to glide slope intercept.

Same as landing, most aircraft you can shoot an approach at a little higher speed, chop power and it slows and lands, the Mooney of course doesn’t slow quickly, and how many accidents are there from people trying to land a Mooney like they did the 172 in training? But again, it’s not hard and doesn’t require excessive skill, it’s just different is all.

My little J doesn’t get its decent cruise speed from its mighty 200 HP, it’s get it from low drag, and drag of course is your friend if your trying to slow.

Be nice to have those speed brakes, butI I’m a poor old retired guy so I’ll have to do without.

‘I exacerbate it as I won’t drop gear until near the white arc, yes I know what the max allowed is, but I believe if you do things at the max limits all the time,it’s going to increase wear.

Thsts one difference between an aircraft renter and an owner.

On edit back in training with the Mooney, the Cherokee 180 for instance I would figure 500 FPM descent and if I had 8,000 to lose about 18 min or so out I’d trim it to 500 FPM and enjoy the speed, at 8,000 throttle was wide open of course

‘First cross country I did that in the Mooney and after a short while I noticed I was right at VNE.

‘Most aircraft after level off you let it accelerate a short while and trim it and your done, a Mooney will slowly keep building speed requiring more re-trimming than most, again not hard, just different, even if you do the climb 200’ over assigned and slowly descend to assigned altitude the Mooney takes longer to get to final speed.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by A64Pilot

[201Steve]

I haven’t read all the responses, but if you don’t think you can slow it down without gear, prove it to yourself that you can. I made 3 approaches to land, intentionally leaving the gear up, just to see how it felt. Go around approx 100’ AGL.  It can easily be done and easily not noticed. 
 

[hammdo]

I've done it without gear - Manifold to 18" then prop full forward, takes a little bit but she gets slowed down. My CFI and I tested coming in hot and the plane did just fine... 

-Don