carusoam Posted January 29, 2015 Report Posted January 29, 2015 Hank, The challenge is... He has the shoulder belts located in the middle of the ceiling already... If I understand correctly? -a- Quote
Hank Posted January 29, 2015 Report Posted January 29, 2015 One fellow here has center-roof-mounted belts. Many manual Mooney pilots complain of skinned knuckles and unbuckled belts while trying to land. They can switch the seats, save their knuckles and keep the belt buckled. Don't know what to say about a 4-place plane with 2-place aerobatic-style shoulder harnesses . . . 1 Quote
Wakeup Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 My buckle is in the middle. I think it is kinda weird they mounted them overhead instead of the sides. The feel fine and hope they work if needed. I just have never seen them mounted that way. I guess my Mooney is Special. Lol. Troy Quote
M20F-1968 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 The retracting reels can be installed in an F model. I did it with DER approval using Ovation parts. I also have a set of clamps that go onto the tubular structure to install non-retracting front shoulder harnesses if anyone is interested. John Breda Quote
HRM Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 My buckle is in the middle. I think it is kinda weird they mounted them overhead instead of the sides. The feel fine and hope they work if needed. I just have never seen them mounted that way. I guess my Mooney is Special. Lol. Troy I am betting they mounted them that way because of the clamp. Quote
Wakeup Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 I am betting they mounted them that way because of the clamp. Quote
Wakeup Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 What clamp are your referring to ?? Thanks. Troy Quote
nels Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 My buckle is in the middle. I think it is kinda weird they mounted them overhead instead of the sides. The feel fine and hope they work if needed. I just have never seen them mounted that way. I guess my Mooney is Special. Lol. Troy If I remember correctly, my Mooney's skin on the pilot side wraps around the tube where the belt hook needs to go. That makes it impossible to put the strap around the tubing without cutting a hole in the skin. I never thought about coming down from the ceiling; I would think that would work ok. 1 Quote
HRM Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 What clamp are your referring to ?? Thanks. Troy The one that clamps around the cage to make an attach point for the shoulder strap. On the pilot side there is miniscopic clearance to get it around the cage bar and then you have to get a nylock nut onto a lag bolt from the other side....ohhh the humanity!!! You also have to get the bolt through multiple washers and bearings AND the royalite trim. These posts you read of alternate mounting schemes can be attributed to this clamp-from-hell. Quote
bradtlew Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Installed the IR shoulder belts and love them. Notes on installation (at least for a C model): 1. take all of the royal tite liners off, including the headliner, don't even try without you'll waste time 2. co-pilot side, there is a small gap you will see where you can install the clamp very easily 3. Pilot side the gap is bigger at the top near the speaker, remove a couple of the small sheet metal screws and you can pry it away enough to squeeze the clamp in there and work it down into position, on pilot side I used a zip tie to mark the location and keep clamp where needed 4. as far as getting the hardware together, if possible, have another person there to hold the assembly in place while the other actually gets the bold started with the nut taped into a wrench (my solution as I did one side myself) 5. while this is all a part, good time to go thru the ducting and tape up any gaps, or like me, fix the rheostat, so now we have lights again! if anyone has questions on this let me know, I also have some pictures that I can post 2 Quote
jetdriven Posted March 15, 2015 Report Posted March 15, 2015 I have the AMSAFE belts and I got the pair for about $100 when a Mooney got parted out. The most GAWD AWFUL INSTALL of my life. Others have noted this. Also, one of the most inane clamping systems ever conceived of. The AMSAFE are very easy to loosen to allow greater reach for things like the fuel selector since they have a tab sewn in, ostensibly for the purpose. That said, I have a PVC pipe fuel selector gizmo to ease that task. The Johnson Bar used to pop the buckle off on landing, very un-nerving. Then one day I noticed that the buckle had moved to the middle of my lap and was no longer an issue. I wonder if it was the seven extra gallons of AVGAS that I added to my W&B calculations that did it. The thing I would worry about is now the shoulder belt's impact load is now only being spread across half your upper chest instead of all of it. Plus your upper body will also rotate around the belt making a face plant on the panel a real possibility. Quote
Hank Posted March 15, 2015 Report Posted March 15, 2015 Haven't heard of that happening in many car accidents, Byron. The shoulder strap was / is seen as a tremendous safety enhancement in aircraft and autos. Restraint is a good thing, right? Aren't AmSafe airbag straps,anyway? Or do they also make "plain" seat belts? Quote
carusoam Posted March 15, 2015 Report Posted March 15, 2015 Hank, I think Byron is describing the location of the buckle. It has moved (in this one case) toward the belly button and away from the hip... It is good to have a shoulder strap, but if it has moved significantly from the original design. New methods of failure may occur. See if you see what I saw in the thread? Best regards, -a- Quote
Hank Posted March 15, 2015 Report Posted March 15, 2015 Ah, I didn't notice that. My buckle has always been closer to center than to hip, and I'm just 190 lbs with 33" waist Levi's. So that didn't raise a flag with me. 1 Quote
jetdriven Posted March 15, 2015 Report Posted March 15, 2015 The belt should go across your sternum. The buckle being at the edge of the seat makes this likely for most people. But if the shoulder belt terminates near seat center, the shoulder belt only goes across half your chest. 1 Quote
Shadrach Posted March 16, 2015 Report Posted March 16, 2015 I put in the Alpha Systems (AMSAFE) harnesses a few years ago. I did an inertia reel for the pilot and standard for the passenger. I think a pax side inertia reel would negatively impact ingress and egress for back seat pax. The low profile standard belt is better. I am not a huge fan of the 1986 Buick style clasp...it does not look like it belongs in an airplane. Howver, I have no issues witht eh location of the clasp. It resides at my hip and is not adjustable; no matter how much I may "grow into it", it will always be right at my hip. Quote
jetdriven Posted March 16, 2015 Report Posted March 16, 2015 The only fix I know if is the alpha Aviaton kit with the push button buckles. That or adjust the inboard strap length where the buckle is just far enough away from the J bar yet still allows the shoulder strap to cross your chest at the sternum. I've seen mooneys with adjustable inboard straps. Quote
Shadrach Posted March 16, 2015 Report Posted March 16, 2015 You've got a good point about rear seat ingress and egress with a co-pilot inertial reel installed, Ross. Mine does get in my rear seat passengers' way. Mine came so equipped but if I was putting them in now I would probably do as you have. I do like having the interial reel as the PIC. Jim I did not come to the conclusion on my own. I read it somewhere and decided that getting in and out of the back was cumbersome enough without a beer can sized protrusion coming into the cabin. I will also say that the shoulder harness install is best done in the summer time or in a heated hangar so that the windows are warm and somewhat flexible. There is not a lot of room between the skin (which the windows are mounted to) and the steel cage and you need to flex it enough to get a steel strap between the two. Should not be an issue for you as it's already been done! Quote
HRM Posted March 16, 2015 Report Posted March 16, 2015 I will also say that the shoulder harness install is best done in the summer time or in a heated hangar so that the windows are warm and somewhat flexible. There is not a lot of room between the skin (which the windows are mounted to) and the steel cage and you need to flex it enough to get a steel strap between the two. You have got to be kidding. Aside from the fact that a certain spot in hell has been reserved in my name given all the cursing, I sweat like a stuck pig putting in the pilot side harness and heated windows would not have made getting that clip in any easier Quote
Andy95W Posted March 16, 2015 Report Posted March 16, 2015 Ah, I didn't notice that. My buckle has always been closer to center than to hip, and I'm just 190 lbs with 33" waist Levi's. So that didn't raise a flag with me. 33" waist? Holy crap, I gotta lose weight. My buckle has been "migrating". Quote
Hank Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 33" waist? Holy crap, I gotta lose weight. My buckle has been "migrating". I'm working on the same goal. Marriage has put over a pound per year on me. Would have resumed bicycling last year but strained my shoulder, then yesterday missed a stair and have some blue toes. Spring is here, I want to do things! Also could use a safety pilot . . . They are few and far between in these parts, even though there are three airports within 20 minutes of work. But my seatbelt hasn't moved noticeably. I don't know how, why or when the seatbelt was installed, but the buckle has always been in the middle. Next time I'm at the hangar, I'll measure the belts. Quote
Shadrach Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 You have got to be kidding. Aside from the fact that a certain spot in hell has been reserved in my name given all the cursing, I sweat like a stuck pig putting in the pilot side harness and heated windows would not have made getting that clip in any easier As I was rotating the strap around the around the steel bar I heard a crack. I checked the pilot side rear window and sure enough there's a 2 inch crack propagating from a window bolt. My MX watched me stop drill and fill it with clear silicone. I was so pissed I was beside myself. Quote
65eTurbo Posted July 11, 2021 Report Posted July 11, 2021 On 8/26/2014 at 10:35 AM, pirate said: I have the fixed. I only tighten shoulder harness during takeoff and landing. Takes a second to loosen or tighten, no big deal. Same. Plus, I prefer the ability to manually snug myself in and turbulence and the lack of weight and complexity involved in an inertia reel. Quote
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