pilot716 Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 We went yesterday out to LV avionics in PA to finalize our upgrade plans..We are adding the Aspen pro PFD 1000, keeping the AI and Nav2 as back up, removing the VSI,TC,Old argus GPS, ADF and may add an Ipad mini dock, All our Comm insturments will be stacked together & a color panel to match out interior...Dropping her off on 1/2 & should be back by the 18th as we are planning a trip to the bahamas the following weekend. will add pics when done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 We went yesterday out to LV avionics in PA to finalize our upgrade plans..We are adding the Aspen pro PFD 1000, keeping the AI and Nav2 as back up, removing the VSI,TC,Old argus GPS, ADF and may add an Ipad mini dock, All our Comm insturments will be stacked together & a color panel to match out interior...Dropping her off on 1/2 & should be back by the 18th as we are planning a trip to the bahamas the following weekend. will add pics when done. Be sure to keep us posted! What radios are you connecting it to? Mine is almost finished. I went with the PFD/MFD 1000 combination. I originally went in with just a PFD installation but added the MFD after the work started. I found out that the MFD reversion capabilities are pretty nice and allowed me to remove the second Nav indicator and with the updated autopilot reversion capabilities on the MFD, I can lose the PFD completely and the MFD will act as the PFD including the AP functionality. Here is a picture of the switch that was installed based on Aspen's specifications. What I love about the Aspen was the ability to integrate with my old Nav/Com. I upgraded an old KX-170B to a GTN 650 but just couldn't swing a second radio at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot716 Posted December 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Did you go with the 1500 or the 2000? I believe only the 2000 is a complete bacjk up AHRS system and not the 1500 MFD combo. We decided the MFD was not neccesary because we have the Ipad for charts and wx, the 430w and 496 both have terrain, so for the cost it was not needed. We have the G430W a 155 for Nav 2, the GTX 330 will now be slaved for traffic from the 430 to the Aspen and our KFC 150 A/P will still run off the vacuum AI but will have all FD commands on the Aspen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 It should be an incredible panel Mark. Was the A/P issue ever resolved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Best bang for the buck. I bought the 2000. It's a great system. I would add that when Aspen conversations come-up, very few pre J owners chime in. When considering panel upgrades (while % of hull value is high) the Aspen 1000 is a smart move. If you have a non-statndard panel in a pre-J plane, this makes good sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot716 Posted December 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 It should be an incredible panel Mark. Was the A/P issue ever resolved? Believe it or not we are only 50% there, it now will only auto trim down but not up, so while he has it taken apart this will be attended to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Did you go with the 1500 or the 2000? I believe only the 2000 is a complete bacjk up AHRS system and not the 1500 MFD combo. We decided the MFD was not neccesary because we have the Ipad for charts and wx, the 430w and 496 both have terrain, so for the cost it was not needed. We have the G430W a 155 for Nav 2, the GTX 330 will now be slaved for traffic from the 430 to the Aspen and our KFC 150 A/P will still run off the vacuum AI but will have all FD commands on the Aspen. Hi Pilot. I have the 2000. I did not opt for the MFD 1000 external battery version. If I did, I could remove the AI. I still feel more comfortable with a mechanical backup (call me old fashion). Like I mentioned earlier, I had not considered the MFD 1000 until I learned of the extra functions it can do. I think with the setup you have, you will be fine. I too have an iPad for charts but like the idea of having them right next to the primary AI and navigation information. What sold me on the MFD were two things. The first being that it could be the complete backup for the PFD including the full AP functionality and the second being that with Aspen's approach and support of open architecture, I should be able to bolt on other future hardware including the ADS-B. Make sure you post some pics! I love seeing these transformations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Best bang for the buck. I bought the 2000. It's a great system. I would add that when Aspen conversations come-up, very few pre J owners chime in. When considering panel upgrades (while % of hull value is high) the Aspen 1000 is a smart move. If you have a non-statndard panel in a pre-J plane, this makes good sense. I disagree. ~15 large for an adi, hsi and mfd? That's pretty crazy for a 40k plane.... I know guys are anti garmin, but an Aspen is just as much of a gouge IMHO. Would love to see a denon type product for certificated A/C. The guys that gush over Aspen seem to LOVE apple products too... How an a silly single source AHRS/ADI cost 10k when a multi functional iPad costs $500.00. Don't give me that "certification costs" stuff... It's because guys like us will pay it. It's not worth it people! Rant over. Flame away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 I disagree. ~15 large for an adi, hsi and mfd? That's pretty crazy for a 40k plane.... I know guys are anti garmin, but an Aspen is just as much of a gouge IMHO. Would love to see a denon type product for certificated A/C. The guys that gush over Aspen seem to LOVE apple products too... How an a silly single source AHRS/ADI cost 10k when a multi functional iPad costs $500.00. Don't give me that "certification costs" stuff... It's because guys like us will pay it. It's not worth it people! Rant over. Flame away. Flames on Christmas?! Only if the tree catches on fire... IMHO opinion, it is all over priced. And if you really want to get to basics, why fly at all? Really, who absolutely needs to fly? Maybe if you own a business and want to see lots of customers both existing and potential. For the rest of us, it is a hobby. When you calculate out the actual costs, it would be cheaper to have a drug habit. As for the avionics cost, it falls in line with everything else overpriced in this market. Why is a LED landing light $249 and a similar set of off-road auto LEDs a third or less of that cost. They got us just where they need us, in a limited sized market with money in our pockets. If you elect to vote with your wallet and not buy, the Aspens go away and the diversified companies like Garmin survive. What do you think will happen to the prices then? When I made a decision to upgrade my F with an Aspen and a Garmin GTN, I essentially made the decision not to leave my kids too much money to fight over and certainly not to line my coffin in gold to take it with me. You only live once... Peace... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Flames on Christmas?! Only if the tree catches on fire... IMHO opinion, it is all over priced. And if you really want to get to basics, why fly at all? Really, who absolutely needs to fly? Maybe if you own a business and want to see lots of customers both existing and potential. For the rest of us, it is a hobby. When you calculate out the actual costs, it would be cheaper to have a drug habit. As for the avionics cost, it falls in line with everything else overpriced in this market. Why is a LED landing light $249 and a similar set of off-road auto LEDs a third or less of that cost. They got us just where they need us, in a limited sized market with money in our pockets. If you elect to vote with your wallet and not buy, the Aspens go away and the diversified companies like Garmin survive. What do you think will happen to the prices then? When I made a decision to upgrade my F with an Aspen and a Garmin GTN, I essentially made the decision not to leave my kids too much money to fight over and certainly not to line my coffin in gold to take it with me. You only live once... Peace... The only reason I'm mad/fuming/ranting over all this is I'm the idiot that paid 16k to have a 430W installed at LASAR 3 years ago. Ugh. I love my plane too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 The only reason I'm mad/fuming/ranting over all this is I'm the idiot that paid 16k to have a 430W installed at LASAR 3 years ago. Ugh. I love my plane too much! I love mine too much as well! I really wish there was more competition in this market. I take all of this stuff in stride. I find contentment in knowing that my life's hard work allows me the luxury to enjoy the experience of flying. I wish it didn't cost so much but I know that I wouldn't trade the experience of soloing a plane for anything -- okay maybe a TBM 850... As long as you got your health and can afford to take her around the patch, enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I love mine too much as well! I really wish there was more competition in this market. I take all of this stuff in stride. I find contentment in knowing that my life's hard work allows me the luxury to enjoy the experience of flying. I wish it didn't cost so much but I know that I wouldn't trade the experience of soloing a plane for anything -- okay maybe a TBM 850... As long as you got your health and can afford to take her around the patch, enjoy it. Shack! I like your attitude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 The only reason I'm mad/fuming/ranting over all this is I'm the idiot that paid 16k to have a 430W installed at LASAR 3 years ago. $16k for a 430? I paid that for the GTN 750 (with trade-in's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 $16k for a 430? I paid that for the GTN 750 (with trade-in's). Yep. LASAR. They charge a pretty penny. I learned my lesson after that bill!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 The only reason I'm mad/fuming/ranting over all this is I'm the idiot that paid 16k to have a 430W installed at LASAR 3 years ago. Ugh. I love my plane too much! you'd lose that much in depreciation on a nice car in 2 years. That 430W was a great investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot716 Posted December 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I disagree. ~15 large for an adi, hsi and mfd? That's pretty crazy for a 40k plane.... I know guys are anti garmin, but an Aspen is just as much of a gouge IMHO. Would love to see a denon type product for certificated A/C. The guys that gush over Aspen seem to LOVE apple products too... How an a silly single source AHRS/ADI cost 10k when a multi functional iPad costs $500.00. Don't give me that "certification costs" stuff... It's because guys like us will pay it. It's not worth it people! Rant over. Flame away. I disagree. ~15 large for an adi, hsi and mfd? That's pretty crazy for a 40k plane.... I know guys are anti garmin, but an Aspen is just as much of a gouge IMHO. Would love to see a denon type product for certificated A/C. The guys that gush over Aspen seem to LOVE apple products too... How an a silly single source AHRS/ADI cost 10k when a multi functional iPad costs $500.00. Don't give me that "certification costs" stuff... It's because guys like us will pay it. It's not worth it people! Rant over. Flame away. I do not own a pre-J plane worth 40K.....Its an 83 M20J worth about 120k...I will post pics.. when done in afew weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 The pre-Js are getting valuable upgrades as people decide to hold them longer. GTNs and Aspens are adding value incredibly compared to adding additional navcoms or an ADF or DME. I am interested in what an IPad installation in the panel would look like. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I put an Aspen and a 430w (and an SL30) in my 65C three years ago. The plane also has an STEC 30, and Garmin Transponder and Audio panel. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTex Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Interesting thread. I have never understood the logic of "you don't want to add a xyz radio to your plane because it is too expensive compared to the value." What makes the plane worth it's price? Airframe condition+Engine hours+Instrumentation. How do you turn a $23K old runout dated panel C-model into a $40K plane? Add a zero time engine. Want to turn that into a $45k plane? Update the panel. Add A/P and new Avionics and you've got a $55K plane. Just look at the homebuilt market. You can purchase a RV7 kit for $25k.. add an engine, you're plane worth $50K. It's not uncommon for folks to have 100% of the engine/hull value in their panels. That's why those planes go for $70-80K or even $100k. You may never recoup the cost of adding avionics to your plane but you're plane will also not be capped at $40k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rwsavory Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Best bang for the buck. I bought the 2000. It's a great system. I would add that when Aspen conversations come-up, very few pre J owners chime in. When considering panel upgrades (while % of hull value is high) the Aspen 1000 is a smart move. If you have a non-statndard panel in a pre-J plane, this makes good sense. I'll chime in. Agreed that if you only have the original panel and very basic equipment glass makes a lot sense. However, after flying a rental plane with the full G1000 system for a few hours I am happy to have my King HSI, G430W and round dial instruments. I don't know about Aspen, but the G1000 adds a lot of unnecessary cost and complexity. And call me old-fashioned, but I find it is quicker for me to interpret the round dials. You do need training and experience with the tapes on glass before tackling hard IFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I disagree. ~15 large for an adi, hsi and mfd? That's pretty crazy for a 40k plane.... I know guys are anti garmin, but an Aspen is just as much of a gouge IMHO. Would love to see a denon type product for certificated A/C. The guys that gush over Aspen seem to LOVE apple products too... How an a silly single source AHRS/ADI cost 10k when a multi functional iPad costs $500.00. Don't give me that "certification costs" stuff... It's because guys like us will pay it. It's not worth it people! Rant over. Flame away. For a 1000 system, they are going in for about $11,000 installed. Assuming you are upgrading your panel to a standard six pack: Analogue panel upgrade .........................................$4500 Repair or rebuild standard heading bug gyro...........$800 Buy any kind of GPS if not equipped........................$2000 (used) Thirty cents on the dollar return for your purchase..$3400 Factor out the GPS and you are still $8,000 against costs. Not that far fetched if you are improving the panel in a $45k plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 For a 1000 system, they are going in for about $11,000 installed. Assuming you are upgrading your panel to a standard six pack: Analogue panel upgrade .........................................$4500 Repair or rebuild standard heading bug gyro...........$800 Buy any kind of GPS if not equipped........................$2000 (used) Thirty cents on the dollar return for your purchase..$3400 Factor out the GPS and you are still $8,000 against costs. Not that far fetched if you are improving the panel in a $45k plane. For me, having flown behind round gauges in my plane since I started flying, I debated the value of putting this kind of money in an older plane. But once you start seeing the cost of doing the same with the round gauges, you find that the costs mount up quickly. Having only a heading bug AP DG, for me to get into an HSI with analog components made no sense. I loved flying analog until I got behind an EFIS for the first time. Could I have continued to fly with round gauges? -- yep. Have flown lots of approaches safely for years with them. So why do it? Probably for the same reason I switch over on any technology -- because I want to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 The Aspen also has a GPS and you would be hard pressed to find even a vfr GPS for $2500. I think what makes a 66 C or E great is the ability to buy low and upgrade. Fly the value off the haul and enjoy the radios. I think the days of buying a 30-40 year old plane and getting all of your money back may be over anyway. Make 'em great a fly them often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 The Aspen also has a GPS and you would be hard pressed to find even a vfr GPS for $2500. I think what makes a 66 C or E great is the ability to buy low and upgrade. Fly the value off the haul and enjoy the radios. I think the days of buying a 30-40 year old plane and getting all of your money back may be over anyway. Make 'em great a fly them often. I agree...enjoy your panel and fly safely Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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