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Posted

I don't know what to do...we'll I know what to do, but you know what I mean.  Today I called a Broker and discussed a Mooney I have had my eye on for sometime.  It  is meticulously cared for, low time, all the bells and whistles I want, sweet interior, and 'just seems perfect.'  Perfect paint (in my eye), great panel and avionics, it's got everything, and is NDH with full logs.  I think this is the one!  I want to fly out tomorrow and go see it and test fly.  Obviously, I will follow the steps of deposit, purchase agreement, PPI, escrow, etc, etc...but I have fallen in love.


My dilemma...I can't buy right now!  I need just a couple months.  My financing is almost ready, insurance is a go...but I am selling a home, moving and buying a home...all right now!  I just can't take on the risk of an airplane loan if this house doesn't sell and I have to carry it and a new mortgage at the new locale.


What do I do!???  I don't know if she'll be on the market in two to three months time!

Posted

See if the seller/broker will let you pay to rent/lease the plane for X months time frame with an option to buy at the end of that time.  Some/all of the lease money can go towards the final balance on the plane depending on how much the seller and you deem fair for him still holding ownership of the plane.

Posted

Buster--


 


I'll probably get my butt handed to me, but here're my thoughts on your condition (note, I didn't say dilema).


Condition 1: You sell the house in time to finance the aircraft. Answer is obvious.


Condition 2: You can't sell the house but have another home to pay for. Answer is that you're stressed to some degree, but it isn't impossible.


Condition 3: You can't sell the house, must pay on the new one, and must service a loan on THE ONE. Answer is that you're angry about not selling the house, angry about having to pay for the new house and the old house, and you have an airplane that you love but are truly stressed (to the point of not being able to service the loan) about.


Pretty easy decision. Don't commit to the airplane until it is comfortable to pay for it. There is no perfect airplane, only a perfect airplane for the conditions in which you find yourself. Nothing could be worse than flying an airplane, wondering every hour if you might have to give it up. It is not the same thing as having a mortgage that strains you a little each month but ultimately is doable.


Flying that airplane should be an exhilerating experience in freedom, not one that imprisons you financially.


 

Posted

Quote: Rustler

Pretty easy decision. Don't commit to the airplane until it is comfortable to pay for it. There is no perfect airplane, only a perfect airplane for the conditions in which you find yourself. Nothing could be worse than flying an airplane, wondering every hour if you might have to give it up. It is not the same thing as having a mortgage that strains you a little each month but ultimately is doable.

Flying that airplane should be an exhilerating experience in freedom, not one that imprisons you financially.

 

Posted

I agree with the above. It's easy to get emotionally attached to an airplane for sale. But you do NOT want to be in a position where you invest time and emotional energy, not to mention money, into an airplane that you all of a sudden have to get rid of because you just can't afford it. And frankly, in this market, getting rid of an airplane is not the easiest thing to do unless you fire-sale it...which doesn't help your economics.


You can ask the seller if they will accept a deposit to hold the plane for a certain period of time, but I doubt they would do this unless the deposit is fairly substantial and non-refundable. In this market, Sellers (of which I am one) need to be able to take the first reasonable offer that comes along to close the deal.


There will always be more airplanes out there.

Posted

talk to the owner and make a deal, if it doesn't work there are always planes for sale. A wise man once told me after we missed out on a deal, keep looking, you have a 50/50 chance of finding a better one.

Posted

I like the way Rustler is thinking. Making a decision tree is helpful in a situation like this.  If all works out well and you do sell the current house quickly, get into a new home quickly and the plane is still on the market then you might even have a better negotiating position. If it does sell then you can look for the next deal, maybe a better one, without the stress of two mortgages hanging over you.   

Posted

Thanks for the advice guys, thanks for the PM Carl.  THIS IS TOUGH.  I've set my sights for my Spring Plan (my Spring Offensive if-you-will), and financially I'll be better then too.  The house should be sold, and we should also be into a new place and settled in.  I'll have more cash on-the-ready by then too.  With all this planning, it sucks to seem to find the right bird now - early!


Great advice, I am getting emotionally involved, and I haven't even seen the plane first-hand.  But the promise that she is meticulously cared for is luring.  The broker, who seemed really honest, even said he would bet that a PPI wouldn't find much to fix...it's a pampered plane....arggg.


The wife agrees with you guys...we need to wait.  I think our current house will sell in time, and we'll not stretch our budget on a new place in Vegas.  But the possibility of carrying two mortgages AND a plane deal would break the budget.  I am hoping for a fast sell here.  We go to Vegas in 2 weeks to house hunt, maybe we can move quickly on something down there and wrap this house stuff up.


Additionally, I did email the broker and 'offer' to work a deal with the seller based on timing.  I basically asked how he would feel pulling the plane off the market, but didn't offer a deposit. It doesn't hurt to deal and talk, we'll see what he says.  I'll let you know.


Thanks for reigning me back guys, and slapping me with some common sense.  I'm just getting too close to my Spring Offensive, and getting jumpy.


Nate

Posted

Quote: Buster1

Thanks for the advice guys, thanks for the PM Carl.  THIS IS TOUGH.  I've set my sights for my Spring Plan (my Spring Offensive if-you-will), and financially I'll be better then too.  The house should be sold, and we should also be into a new place and settled in.  I'll have more cash on-the-ready by then too.  With all this planning, it sucks to seem to find the right bird now - early!

Great advice, I am getting emotionally involved, and I haven't even seen the plane first-hand.  But the promise that she is meticulously cared for is luring.  The broker, who seemed really honest, even said he would bet that a PPI wouldn't find much to fix...it's a pampered plane....arggg.

The wife agrees with you guys...we need to wait.  I think our current house will sell in time, and we'll not stretch our budget on a new place in Vegas.  But the possibility of carrying two mortgages AND a plane deal would break the budget.  I am hoping for a fast sell here.  We go to Vegas in 2 weeks to house hunt, maybe we can move quickly on something down there and wrap this house stuff up.

Additionally, I did email the broker and 'offer' to work a deal with the seller based on timing.  I basically asked how he would feel pulling the plane off the market, but didn't offer a deposit. It doesn't hurt to deal and talk, we'll see what he says.  I'll let you know.

Thanks for reigning me back guys, and slapping me with some common sense.  I'm just getting too close to my Spring Offensive, and getting jumpy.

Nate

Posted

Maybe there is something wrong with me.  My experiences in buying are very different than either Alan's or Nate's. I am not saying that one approach is better or worse than the other, just that each depends on who we are and what we want.  I am an engineer and retired Army officer.  You know the type.  AAA approach to attain an entirely objective goal.  Unlike the reputation of most engineers, I believe very strongly in the value that other people bring to our solutions.


I started looking in the Spring of 2004 and signed the formal offer of purchase in December of the same year for the plane you see pictured to the left of these words.  The search involved eight 1965/66 E model Mooneys. I knew I wanted a short body with thefuel injected engine for the sort of reasons that are alluded to below.  Throughout the entire eight months of search, each of these aircraft remained under consideration for between one week and two months - such that no two were being considered at the same time.


During opening negotiations on three of them, I ran into some information about the aircraft or strange behaviour from the owner or broker that resulted in dropping them before making an offer. I made formal offers (with deposit) on five of them and all of these went through a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) - y'all call it a pre-buy.  PPIs were carried out in Calgary, Ottawa, Charleston, Joplin and Memphis. I only saw one of them with my own eyes before making an offer - and that one did not make it.  So, for me, it was never the about the emotion surrounding any one of them being "The One" - and that is difference I perceive here. 


There is emotion - do not doubt that - but it is not that my bird looks good or is a show piece.  My little E model kicks _ss. 


150 kts on 9.7 gph.  Beat that!! 


Fifth fastest airplane on my field of nearly 100 aircraft, including two J models, an A35 Bonanza and a Debonair.  None of them came in a under $55,000. Beat that!!  


I know some fixed gear Piper Cherokee models on our field that cost nearly twice that.  Beat that!! 


I know our club C182 has less useful load with full tanks than my E model, and less range.  Beat that!! 


I know that my E model will ride out some light and moderate turbulence during cross countries because of its stability that create very bumpy rides for Cessna and Pipers whose wings are not laminar flow.  Beat that!! 


I have an easy-to-operate manual gear which depends on zero electrical/hydraulic systems to operate or maintain.  Beat that!!


Each PPI I paid for was $500 invested that resulted in $50,000 in savings.  A 1% investment.  Each PPI identified between $14,000 and $20,000 of airworthiness issues that were presented back to the seller to consider.  The first seller that stepped up to assume their responsibilities was the one I ended up buying from.  I still put another $20,000 back into the airplane in each of the first two years of ownership (JPI,  new generator, regulator, starter, intercom, engine heater, and four new cylinders etc,) for things that passed the PPI, but showed signs of wear thereafter.  At 1941 hours SMOH last year, we listened to the engine and did the overhaul (reduced $ somewhat because of the new cylinders).


So for me, The One is not just the model and how it makes me feel (although it does make me feel very good). The One was the E model that underwent review by five dedicated individuals (two of which were MSCs) and was being sold by someone who viewed their responsibilities in the transaction that same way I did.  The whole process was only stressful when the last seller started balking at the PPI report.  When he went to talk to the MSC and saw the results - then he understood.


The One is defined by our passion, not only for flight and how Mooneys do that so well, but also for the characteristics we associate with flight.  My most desired characteristics were those that best met my stated mission profile. "Get up - get over - get down.  Safely, quickly, and efficiently."


I applaud Nate for maintaining focus on the aim, and trusting his instincts when examining his options.  Worry not, sir.  The One will come.


And for Alan:  Good Luck!!  I hope your diligence pays off for you sooner, rather than later.


 

Posted


Ned, those are some well sussed out and presented thoughts. I would like to ask how many airplanes you have bought. The only reason I want to know that is to determine how much of your discipline is due to your avocation/personality and how much could be due to experience.


Again, that was some good reading and I'll refer back to it when feeling myself getting emotional about a purchase prior to the act. (Yes, I am looking also.)


 


< edit > spelling and font changes < /edit >


Posted

Carl:


Thank you for the kind words.  I have been involved in only two purchases of aircraft (and only two houses too!!). 


The first time, I was one of 10 and I went along with the decisions/rationale presented by our group leader on a 1969 Piper Arrow.  Notice how both of my aircraft are aimed at the same sort of mission profile?  I had very little to do, or to say in the purchase of the Arrow - although it went very well.  Just shy of $100,000 for our group which eventually included one more.


When that group dispanded in July 2003 (based on the will of the majority - I was one of three dissenters) I learned two things.  Avoid partnerships of more than 3 on any airplane I would own, and I wanted an RG aircraft that had a mechanical means of making it RG.  Sort of limited the options didn't it?


So I spent nine months or so learning about Mooneys - and then eight months trying to buy one.  That's it.  Met some really good people in the process, including the guy who owns the MSC that currently looks after my Mooney now.  He owns an E model as well.


Good luck in your search.  I wish for you as much success in yours as I enjoyed in mine.

Posted

UPDATE:


Well the Broker emailed back and said the seller would take the plane off the market for me for a non-refundable deposit.  Much as we expected.  That is a smart move for him for good business, and I understand completely.  I will not be sending him any money.


Now, I guess I'll play the waiting game.  Hoping for the best with our home sale, home buy, and move.  And I'll be crossing my fingers that this bird will still be there when I'M ready.


Thanks for the great advice.


Nate

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