IFD440?

[panther1400]

What do you guys think about the IFD440 campared to a 430w just got an email saying a person could get one for 8800?

[danb35]

Nobody really knows for sure, as they won't be in production for another year at least.  The UI and feature set look very attractive to me (who already has a 430W), but probably not compelling enough to upgrade.  However, assuming it does make it to market, and I were considering an upgrade, I'd be inclined to choose it over the GTN650 for ease of installation.

[Hank]

I thought the GTN series took a new tray, and the IFDs use the current G430/G530 tray for slide-in replacement. Other peope/other forums have referred to this as "Garmin dropping the ball." Why would they make a radio upgrade that requires new trays, wiring and antennas???

All I can say about the IFD series is that I'm getting weekly emails for on-line webinars and pre-order discounts, but am not looking to spend that much yet, my G430W is just fine and I'm still recovering from tank reseal$.

[co2bruce]

I too have spoken to Avadyne and the price is 8800.00. The new unit will slide right into my 430W tray and is supposed to intergrate exactly like the Garmin. You will also be able to sell your Garmin 430W when the new unit comes. So the cost of the new unit will only be 3500 - 4000.

[panther1400]

That is what I was figuring about that 3500-4000 range just sure if there would be alot of benifits to justify the cost.

[KSMooniac]

If you have a non-WAAS 430, then this makes a very, very attractive alternative vs. spending $3k to Garmin to upgrade to a WAAS unit.

I have a 530W/430W combo and think I would lean towards the -540/-440 combo as an upgrade at lower cost than the -750/-650 options.

[M016576]

if I ever decide to upgrade my 430W, it will most likely be with a IFD440- mainly because its a slide in replacement (ie, no real install costs).

As for the interface, etc, it looks pretty similar to the 650/750 series... I don't see any single feature that stands out between the two competitors (other than the 650/750 being available right now and the 440/540 still in pre-production)

[fantom]

Quote: KSMooniac

If you have a non-WAAS 430, then this makes a very, very attractive alternative vs. spending $3k to Garmin to upgrade to a WAAS unit.

I have a 530W/430W combo and think I would lean towards the -540/-440 combo as an upgrade at lower cost than the -750/-650 options.

[FlyDave]

Avidyne can say "slide-in replacement" all they want. I'd wait to see how the first few "Slide-in replacements" "slide-in" (tough to do if you're pre-purchasing).

Few, if any, upgrades are truly seamless (i.e. not requiring additional time and AMU's)!

[Cris]

In my case I do not have a 430 so I would have to also buy the install kit tray and antenna for another $1000. One point that is seldom is the supposed resale of existing 430 when the IFD 440 arrives All those units dumped on the market T the same time will undoubtedly depress prices

[M016576]

Quote: fantom

540/440 over a 750/650 most probably, BUT why would you consider tearing out a 530W/430W for either supposed upgrade, at probably tens of thousands of dollars.

I flown behind a 750 several times and while 'nice', it doesn't do much for me, certainly not enough in fuctionality to spend a lot of $ to swap out.

What am I missing?

 

[omega708]

As someone who needs upgraded avionics, I'd rather pay 8,800 for a new avidyne than 6-7k for a used 430w. I just wish they were out now, so I could put my hands on one.  Are they still targeting a 2013 release date?  Do you have to commit to a pre-purchase to get the discount?  The advertised price I've seen is closer to 15k for the 440...

[PTK]

Quote: M016576

But the same can be said for most panel type upgrades from a general perspective.  Replace your mechanical ADI and HSI with a $11k aspen and are you increasing the capability of your aircraft at all?  Some say the digital is a huge upgrade, others dont see it.  

[KSMooniac]

Quote: fantom

540/440 over a 750/650 most probably, BUT why would you consider tearing out a 530W/430W for either supposed upgrade, at probably tens of thousands of dollars.

I flown behind a 750 several times and while 'nice', it doesn't do much for me, certainly not enough in fuctionality to spend a lot of $ to swap out.

What am I missing?

 

[danb35]

Well, the interface needed for a nav/com is quite a bit less complicated than for a GPS/nav/com like the 430.  Nonetheless, the 430 has been out for quite a while, and the interface is pretty well-documented, so there's no reason to believe Avidyne won't be able to manage it.

[FlyDave]

Quote: JimR

Why is there any reason to doubt that a radio that was specifically designed to be a slide-in replacement will in fact be a slide-in replacement?  The new 760 channel digital flip flop TKM Michel MX-170Cs that I replaced my aging KX-170Bs with several years ago certainly were.  Shame on Garmin for not doing the same thing. I guess that their dealer/installers are more important to them than are their existing customers. 

Jim

[jetdriven]

Quote: omega708

As someone who needs upgraded avionics, I'd rather pay 8,800 for a new avidyne than 6-7k for a used 430w. I just wish they were out now, so I could put my hands on one.  Are they still targeting a 2013 release date?  Do you have to commit to a pre-purchase to get the discount?  The advertised price I've seen is closer to 15k for the 440...

[jetdriven]

Quote: allsmiles

Exactly right Job! Some experts don't even see it! I called a very prominent avionics shop just the other day inquiring about a potential G500 upgrade. I described to the gentleman my situation he asked me questions about my existing panel etc etc. I happen to have the KI 256 along with the KCS 55A HSI the KFC 150 and GTN 750 driving.

To make a long story short his recommendation was hold on to that KCS 55A! Overhaul if and when you need to but hold on to it! He was honest to come straight out and tell me "...as much as I 'd like to sell you glass, you have an EXCELLENT and reliable piece of equipment!" Along the same lines for the AI! I have to agree because they are flawless and work great! 

This from a very prominent shop which shall remain nameless. What does this tell you??!! I think it speaks volumes!

[DaV8or]

Quote: M016576

Mainly, it's just an user interface upgrade.  No new capability.

[PTK]

Quote: jetdriven

Exactly right Job! Some experts don't even see it! I called a very prominent avionics shop just the other day inquiring about a potential G500 upgrade. I described to the gentleman my situation he asked me questions about my existing panel etc etc. I happen to have the KI 256 along with the KCS 55A HSI the KFC 150 and GTN 750 driving.

To make a long story short his recommendation was hold on to that KCS 55A! Overhaul if and when you need to but hold on to it! He was honest to come straight out and tell me "...as much as I 'd like to sell you glass, you have an EXCELLENT and reliable piece of equipment!" Along the same lines for the AI! I have to agree because they are flawless and work great! 

This from a very prominent shop which shall remain nameless. What does this tell you??!! I think it speaks volumes!

[M016576]

Quote: DaV8or

Yes, but that can be huge if you fly a lot of IFR. If you just fly VFR all the time, then no need for any upgrades. IMO, the Garmin 430 interface is antique and pretty much crap for IFR flying. You really need an auto pilot to use it safely in a cloud. Just my non current, haven't flown IFR since 2006 opinion. So take whatever I say on the subject with a tiny grain of salt. I'm sure there are loads of folks that are out there flying IFR very comfortably with a 430, but only after a tremendious amount of repetitive practice. I believe a NAV/COM should be intuitive and not require a thick manual, a PC simulator and transition instruction. The newer boxes from Avidyne and Garmin are getting closer to what Apple and ap writers have already layed out.

I have not really checked out the Avidyne, so I can't really say if it's any good or not, but I am intrigued.

[KSMooniac]

Nice post, Job.  BTW, thanks again for what you and the other service members on here do for us!

Years ago I flew down to Abilene TX (home to Dyess AFB) to visit a classmate for the weekend.  He is a B-1 pilot and invited me down for their airshow, and asked me to bring my 496 with me to his house and the airshow.  Turns out the B-1 had no weather avoidance technology whatsoever, and that led to frequent unscheduled landings when traveling XC, which of course costs (us) a fortune when you think about the extra fuel used.  He had been lobbying to get some Garmin portables for the squadron so they could get a better idea of what the weather is doing, and was shot down b/c the brass didn't think they would work in the B-1 cockpit.  After the show, we climbed into one and fired up my 496 and downloaded some Wx data just to prove it would indeed work, and he took a picture.  Fast forward a few months, and they got a few 696s for use while traveling.  

The next day I took him flying and showed him what a WAAS GPS + GPSS autopilot could do and he just about cried.  :-)  My little Mooney is way more sophisticated than our front-line bomber.  We are indeed fortunate to have access to the avionics we do, but still find ways to screw up...  keep training and practicing!

[DaV8or]

Quote: M016576

It's not the panels they are flying behind (because in most cases, they are worse than a GA pilots... at least in my experience): it's the training and repetition. 

Learn what you have.  Practice. Practice. Practice....