Landing Mooney M20J on dry sand?

[Ibra]

Anyone done it?

I have landed Maule (MX7) and DA40 on Barra beach before, now thinking about going in Mooney. The plan is to wash it right afterwards for any salty water and change oil and air filters 

Edited Monday at 06:07 PM by Ibra

[Guillaume]

Just flew over Barra last week... Landed in Stornoway. 

Sand in Barra was definitely not dry! 

I didn't want to land there although it was tempting. I leave that to others aircraft. 

Regardless, Scotland was stunning last week. 

 

[Hank]

Someone here flew their Mooney to Burning Man in the Nevada desert. I think he spent some time with masking tape before the trip. Google may find the thread for you.

Don't think I'd try landing on either wet sand or very powdery sand. Both are quite unstable. 

[201Mooniac]

Maybe someone from the PNW might have some experience from Copalis Beach?

[Ibra]

1 hour ago, Guillaume said:

Sand in Barra was definitely not dry

Thanks Guillaume, looks like you had the best of Scottish weather this week? 

I was thinking more about Sollas, I went to Barra years ago, we took DA40 (fiberglass and school aircraft), indeed, the sand is too wet with lot of standing salty water around (landing felt ok but takeoff was way too splashy) 

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Someone here flew their Mooney to Burning Man in the Nevada desert.

Maybe Paul in Rocket? @gsxrpilot ?

Edited Monday at 08:06 PM by Ibra

[Vance Harral]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Someone here flew their Mooney to Burning Man in the Nevada desert.

That was @gsxrpilot, who no longer participates here.  I'm friends with Paul, see him frequently.  He sold his 252 earlier this year, but as far as I know there were never any ill effects from his trips to Burning Man in it.  He did wash it carefully after each trip.

As with any soft field, investigation of conditions on the day of landing is important.  A beach or playa that's fine one day may be inadvisable on another.

[dkkim73]

1 hour ago, 201Mooniac said:

Maybe someone from the PNW might have some experience from Copalis Beach?

When I went to Copalis years ago it was in a C172. IIRC you time it with the tide and the sand is fairly firm, kind of anti climatic. 

In your case I'd probably try and call and get some local PIREPs, eg have any comparable-weight aircraft landed there. Eg Bonanzas. 

[76Srat]

2 hours ago, Ibra said:

Anyone done it?

I have landed Maule (MX7) and DA40 on Barra beach before, now thinking about going in Mooney. The plan is to wash it right afterwards for any salty water and change oil and air filters 

[this is too easy to resist]:  I'm sure the landing is fine.  Isn't the ensuing takeoff a bit more of a concern?

 

 

[kortopates]

I land at dirt strips every winter in Mexico. Never in soft sand, although the parking area at my favorite whale watching lagoon is quite soft. But none would we characterized as beach sand. The closest is referred to crushed shell which is very sandy but not soft sand. But its easy to get stuck in the soft sandy areas. 

The problem with your potential beach landing is knowing just how soft it is. A recent pirep is very helpful. But with some soft field practice and technique the landing and takeoff should not be an issue unless it beach sand soft. But taxi and turning around, such as to back taxi, are the real threats! It good to pre-walk the strip if you have to turn around so you can pick a spot without rocks and that's not so soft that you are at risk of digging in. Whatever happens though, don't power up if the nose wheel digs in - shut down immediately and dig yours self out if necessary.

Burning Man airport that Paul Steen visited isn't comparable to beach sand, it a Playa and the organizers do a lot of prep work each year plus the airport sees a ton of traffic. The hazards of Burning Man aren't the runway use but the winds kicking up the very corrosive playa dust that get everywhere. Not a problem with the typical dirt runway but a dust storm isn't good for any aircraft.

Anyway I've never felt the need to change my oil or air filter after any of my trips. I do wipe down the dust off the landing gear and doors. Of course, Burning man would be very different!

I'll assume your familiar with a rolling or moving runup so as not to damage the prop. 

[IvanP]

Mooney is probably not the best choice of aircaft to land on a sandy beach. Doable - yes, wise - probably not.  

[wombat]

I've landed at Copalis dozens of times but never in a Mooney.

The sand can be hard as a rock, or it can be soft enough that you'd sink in and rip off at least the nose gear on a Mooney but the soft sand is easy to identify because it's very dry and light colored.

If we are willing to ignore the salt sand damage problem, landing a Mooney there would be no problem.  I'd get a recent report (like last 30 minutes or less) before landing my Mooney there though.  I'll land a 182 there without that.

The basic question for the OP here is...  How soft is soft in this case?  Of the other planes you've landed there, the DA40 probably has similar tire pressures and sizes and aircraft weight... Do you just roll *on* the surface, or does it sink in at all?  If the Diamond rolls on top without deforming the sand at all, the Mooney is probably just fine.    You could deflate the tires a little to help. But it's probably very condition dependent.

 

I wouldn't bother changing the oil and air filters, but I would really wash thoroughly where the salty sand gets kicked up.  Maybe tape some areas off ahead of time.

Edited Tuesday at 04:10 AM by wombat
'never' is not spelled 'nver'.. dang typos.

[MikeOH]

I guess I'm getting old....I have lost whatever desire I ever had to land on river bars, beaches, etc. (In an Mooney, or similar). Other than the thrill I just don't see a very good risk reward trade-off.  Best case I get to do an extremely thorough cleaning of the entire underbelly, gear, and wheel wells.  But, to each his own.  Have fun!

[Ibra]

3 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Best case I get to do an extremely thorough cleaning of the entire underbelly, gear, and wheel wells.  But, to each his own.  Have fun!

That's the plan full clean on return (hopefully some rain on the way back). 

@MikeOH come on, you never had a wish to land in backgarden 

10 hours ago, kortopates said:

The problem with your potential beach landing is knowing just how soft it is. A recent pirep is very helpful. But with some soft field practice and technique the landing and takeoff should not be an issue unless it beach sand soft. But taxi and turning around, such as to back taxi, are the real threats! It good to pre-walk the strip if you have to turn around so you can pick a spot without rocks and that's not so soft that you are at risk of digging in. Whatever happens though, don't power up if the nose wheel digs in - shut down immediately and dig yours self out if necessary

Thanks for the tips, I would go for full stop and walk before taxi.

3 hours ago, wombat said:

If we are willing to ignore the salt sand damage problem, landing a Mooney there would be no problem.  I'd get a recent report (like last 30 minutes or less) before landing my Mooney there though.  I'll land a 182 there without that.

The basic question for the OP here is...  How soft is soft in this case?  Of the other planes you've landed there, the DA40 probably has similar tire pressures and sizes and aircraft weight... Do you just roll *on* the surface, or does it sink in at all?  If the Diamond rolls on top without deforming the sand at all, the Mooney is probably just fine.    You could deflate the tires a little to help. But it's probably very condition dependent.

 

Sollas Beach should be OK in the right days and conditions, they had Trislanders and Caravans once, these are still "workhorses" but they are havy (8000lbs-9000lbs). As you say it's "condition dependent" what works one day, does not work the other.

DA40 has same weight as M20J, slightly underperforms on soft surfaces. DA40 was fine on takeoff in Barra Beach, however, I would not take Mooney there as that sand was too wet with lot of water patches and aquaplaning. Nothing special about landing, it felt normal, the hard bit is spotting the main runway marks from overhead and on short final (latter on, I was told they had LPV procedure ) 

Edited Tuesday at 07:31 AM by Ibra