M20E J-Bar Muscles

[Steve Hughes]

Hey folks,

We are getting trained up in our new-to-us M20E with manual gear.  Things are going very well except for how hard it is to raise and lower the gear.  We had the gear lubricated and the Johnson bar cleaned and lubed, but it is still much harder to operate than I feel it should be.  I would guess that it takes about 75 to 100 lbs of force to raise the gear, enough that our instructor has to fly the plane while the pilot works the bar.  Some research is suggesting that the shock disks should be replaced.  Is this something we should be considering?

[hammdo]

Down lock blocks, bend in the jbar could do that also, speed at which you raise it. Could do the Mooney Dip (slight push forward as you raise the gear).

Look at those kinds of options first…

over 85 mph and it gets tougher to raise the gear, best to get it up before that speed…

lowering i wait until below 120 (around 115) watch out for the seat belt ‘bite’

with practice you’ll get it. Get up to altitude and practice raising and lowering the gear at around 80 mph…

-Don

[47U]

31 minutes ago, Steve Hughes said:

Things are going very well except for how hard it is to raise and lower the gear.

Don @hammdo makes a good point, check the J bar to make sure it isn’t bent along with the (several) rods to make sure they’re all straight.  And excess speed makes it a lot harder.  A CFI that wants to wait to retract the gear until ‘there’s no useable runway’ isn’t helping.  The POH talks about retracting the gear when a positive rate of climb is well established, or something like that. 

Lubrication was a good start, but changing the shock disks won’t make any difference.  

Have the torque preloads been checked?  Also, there are some assist springs, two in the belly and one each in the wing outboard of the gear that should be inspected.  

Retracting the extending the gear is an exercise in rhythm.  Once the muscle memory is learned, you won’t have any problem. You can practice with the gear when the airplane is on jacks getting the preloads checked.

[Kelpro999]

Get it on jacks and feel for binding. Carpet or boots can prevent movement at each end. As 47U said, get a feel for it. Momentum is key.

[hammdo]

 

[N201MKTurbo]

If it is hard to get it into the down lock block, the nose gear is most likely out of rig. It is kind of tricky to do correctly. Most mechanics don't have a clue.

[takair]

What everybody above said. Pucks won’t make any difference. Rigging might. Almost every transition student has issues. Most wait way too long trying to put the gear up and the speed builds. It takes a bunch of takeoffs to get it. Once the speed builds the easiest way is the dip someone mentioned. Just a LIGHT push. I’ve had people try to kill me by pushing too hard and too low. As you push the yoke you raise the gear. Easier said than done, but again requires practice. The biggest issue I see with putting gear down is managing your he momentum so there is just enough to get to the lock, but not so much that it bangs into place. More practice.  

[N201MKTurbo]

The one in the video is harder than it should be.

[Steve Hughes]

The one in that video was way easier than our plane (or that dude is way stronger than I).  I get it out of the lock and pull and it takes every bit of arm strength I have to pull it past about the 1:30 position where I can put some weight on it to go the rest of the way.  I just found a blog post by Lasar that said:

"It is risky to allow discs to age to the point that they don't fully extend the lower leg and tire. Three things can happen: 1. The gear extension safety switch may not function correctly, 2. The possibility of the shock spacer plate at the top of the disc stack may rotate to a PLACE where it may contact THE RETRACT mechanism on the main spar in the wheel well and prevent gear retraction... 3. Gear legs that don't fully extend may misalign with the gear door and mating fairings and cause damage when retracted."

And I found in the log books that the main pucks are 16 years old and the nose are 20yo.

 

[47U]

3 hours ago, Steve Hughes said:

And I found in the log books that the main pucks are 16 years old and the nose are 20yo.

If there’s binding or interference of the gear on the doors or retract mechanism, I think there would be visual evidence of that in chafe marks.  The person doing the gear lube could (should?) have seen that evidence since they were there to lube because of the reported stiff operation.  

I think the airplane needs to go up on jacks so you can see what’s going on.

[N201MKTurbo]

None of the issues you mentioned, would cause your problem. It’s not the shock disks.

[jamesm]

This video For Reference and demonstration and  informational purposes only. seek someone who has done this adjustment before. I have never had to make any adjustment to the gear in 40 years the M20C airplane been in the family. It's one  job you don't guess at  or tackle without foreknowledge and experience.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:51 AM by jamesm

[N201MKTurbo]

The main gear is a lot easier to get right than the nose gear. The nose gear on Johnson bar Mooneys are solid rods with no springs. They have to be adjusted precisely. The main gear legs are adjusted by turning the rod ends. Which can only be turned in 1/2 turn increments. The nose gear rods have to be more precise than you can get by adjusting the rod ends. That is why they have eccentrics where the rods attach.

[Echo]

If you are having difficulty with raising gear it either technique or something wrong with gear.  The motion should be fluid and not difficult.

[Utah20Gflyer]

After a while you look like this and raising the gear gets really easy

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

Wrong arm…

[hammdo]

[M20F-1968]

On 5/10/2025 at 2:26 PM, Steve Hughes said:

Hey folks,

We are getting trained up in our new-to-us M20E with manual gear.  Things are going very well except for how hard it is to raise and lower the gear.  We had the gear lubricated and the Johnson bar cleaned and lubed, but it is still much harder to operate than I feel it should be.  I would guess that it takes about 75 to 100 lbs of force to raise the gear, enough that our instructor has to fly the plane while the pilot works the bar.  Some research is suggesting that the shock disks should be replaced.  Is this something we should be considering?

I had just this problem when I rebuilt my F.  We used new springs and the push rods that were in the airplane. It was a two person job to get the gear up, which was obviously unacceptable.  We researched the landing gear blueprints at the factory and found that even though there were two fuselage lengths there were three different lengths of the push rods that compress the springs.  My feeling was that given the these airplanes are essentially man-made, there are some tolerance differences. The other issue to consider is that mine is a 68F and the Johnson bar is different for that year only. The bottom line is we had installed the middle length of retraction rods compressing pushing the springs, and made some spacers to see what would happen if the springs were compressed a little more. That made all the difference in the world. The difference was beforehand. It took two people in two hands to put the gear up.  After the adjustment, the gear could be put up with two fingers.

My mechanic went to Dugosh and dug through their old parts and found a set of the longest compression push rods and install those. To this day I put up the gear with two fingers.  

If you cannot find the longer rod, simply use the shorter or mid length rod, cut it, weld it and make it longer.  I doubt anything is bent. You likely have the wrong compression rods in the airplane.

John Breda

[TheAv8r]

What's your airspeed when you try to put the gear up? If you're above 80kts, it is difficult and gets more difficult each knot adds to it. 70-80kts, it should be pretty easy. Next flight, try a Vx climb out (70kts) and try putting it up then. I usually put it up almost immediately after takeoff (positive climb assured of course) and have no issues.

[dkkim73]

That second video was very helpful. Has anyone seen further "illustrations" in the sense of animations or video recordings of gear swings with the panels off? I've looked at a few drawings in the manual but still am developing a sense of how the gear operates. In fact, I didn't even fully note the inboard doors on my plane until more recently. 

[phxcobraz]

As others have said, gear up right around 80mph, after that it gets pretty hard to do smoothly. Gear down below 120, but really closer to 110/100mph. Trying to put the gear down right at 120mph will be really difficult to get the last 6in or so into the down lock block.

If you are nailing your pattern speeds of 100mph downwind, 90mph base, 75-80mph final, it's easy to be abeam your touchdown point in downwind and put down gear, going 100mph, and it's a pretty easy process, the last little bit into the lock block will the be hardest part but not too bad at that speed.

 

Regarding the shock discs, no that won't affect it, however since you stated yours are 20yrs old, that is another thing needing replaced, if you don't already have fuel tank leaks you will soon due to the stress added to the airframe.

[Skates97]

4 hours ago, phxcobraz said:

As others have said, gear up right around 80mph, after that it gets pretty hard to do smoothly. Gear down below 120, but really closer to 110/100mph. Trying to put the gear down right at 120mph will be really difficult to get the last 6in or so into the down lock block.

If you are nailing your pattern speeds of 100mph downwind, 90mph base, 75-80mph final, it's easy to be abeam your touchdown point in downwind and put down gear, going 100mph, and it's a pretty easy process, the last little bit into the lock block will the be hardest part but not too bad at that speed.

 

Regarding the shock discs, no that won't affect it, however since you stated yours are 20yrs old, that is another thing needing replaced, if you don't already have fuel tank leaks you will soon due to the stress added to the airframe.

The other thing to remember is that the faster you are when you lower the gear the faster the bar will want to swing up from the drag on the gear. Right at 120mph if you aren't holding on to it tight, it can slip out of your hand and slam into the panel.