eli5 slide-in audio panel replacement

[toto]

I’ve read a bunch of threads about slide-in audio panel replacement, but I’m hoping for something less dense and more idiot-proof..

I have a perfectly functional GMA340 with stereo wiring to all seats. I’ve been thinking about swapping it for a GMA345 or a PMA450 really just to get Bluetooth and a USB-C jack. 

I'm only really interested in this if I can remove two screws, slide out the old one, and slide in the new one. Is that all there is to this? I mean, aside from the logbook entry? Or is it more complicated than that?

[KSMooniac]

It's that easy. Actually it is even easier... One 3/32 captive screw! Get the PS Engineering! Way better than Garmin.

Sent from my motorola edge plus 2023 using Tapatalk

[Joshua Blackh4t]

As a pilot with the ancient push button audio panel, I'm curious what is better about the new ones.

I mean stereo music to everyone sounds good, but everyone has bluetooth. I can hear the radio fine. I can hear other people reasonably.

What more do you get?

[Rwsavory]

4 minutes ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

As a pilot with the ancient push button audio panel, I'm curious what is better about the new ones.

I mean stereo music to everyone sounds good, but everyone has bluetooth. I can hear the radio fine. I can hear other people reasonably.

What more do you get?

The additional features and capabilities are better explored via YouTube. Suffice to say I’ve been in your shoes and would never go back. 

[MikeOH]

6 minutes ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

As a pilot with the ancient push button audio panel, I'm curious what is better about the new ones.

I mean stereo music to everyone sounds good, but everyone has bluetooth. I can hear the radio fine. I can hear other people reasonably.

What more do you get?

100% agree with you!  In fact, I'm one step removed from your 'hi-tech' installation.  I have the original Mooney toggle switches for an 'audio panel'  Works just fine.  I can't imagine spending thousands to rewire all my avionics into a spiffy new BlueTooth, USB, WiFi, stereo (why???), turboencabulator audiophile 'system'.  Of course I'm the guy still using a $100 pair of passive headphones I've had for 25 years!  I was annoyed having to change batteries in the Zulus the previous owner included with the plane.  I let the wife and kids use those.

[toto]

19 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

Get the PS Engineering! Way better than Garmin.
 

I’ve gone back and forth on that. I really like that the PSE folks seem to have amazing customer service, and participate/respond to questions on MooneySpace probably better than any other vendor.

My biggest hesitation with the PS unit is the soft keys. I think I prefer the real, dedicated buttons to the soft keys with the LCD. Seems easier to deal with when bouncing around, and I don’t mind needing to crack open the manual for the occasional device pairing or whatever.

But I could certainly be convinced otherwise. What do you love about the PS unit over the Garmin unit?

[KSMooniac]

Audio quality is the best in the business. The soft keys work fine IMO, but I don't fiddle with much, honestly. The intelliaudio (3d spatial) can be configured easily, but doesn't need adjustment after. I upgraded from the GMA 340 and it is so much nicer. Newer Garmin has some extra features, but I think their audio quality still lags noticeably. You can demo at OSH or other shows and do A-B testing and really tell.

Sent from my motorola edge plus 2023 using Tapatalk

[LANCECASPER]

8 hours ago, toto said:

I’ve read a bunch of threads about slide-in audio panel replacement, but I’m hoping for something less dense and more idiot-proof..

I have a perfectly functional GMA340 with stereo wiring to all seats. I’ve been thinking about swapping it for a GMA345 or a PMA450 really just to get Bluetooth and a USB-C jack. 

I'm only really interested in this if I can remove two screws, slide out the old one, and slide in the new one. Is that all there is to this? I mean, aside from the logbook entry? Or is it more complicated than that?

@Mscheuer you have a potential customer that needs to be convinced.

[AndreiC]

I'm interested to hear more about this. My plane has an ancient King KA-134 audio panel, and I am concerned that sometimes after you use the speaker button the audio panel loses all functionality (the audio from the radios goes neither to the headsets nor to the speaker). Lately I decided to never use the speaker button any more.

I was thinking of getting a PMA7000BT installed in its place. I think the extra 1/3" can be found somewhere above, without having to move the entire stack. (The KA134 is 1" tall, while the PMA is 1.33".)

My question is to what extent this is something that can be done by my A&P, with my help, instead of having to go to an expensive avionics shop; and also if it is possible to do the work in two stages, a first one that only involves installing the new tray and rewiring the plugs in the back, while reusing the mono wires that go to the headset plugs, and a second stage replacing the headset wires and plugs.

Does any of this make any sense? The problem is that my avionics shop quoted 2.5-3 AMU for a complete install of a nice audio panel...

[McMooney]

11 hours ago, toto said:

I’ve read a bunch of threads about slide-in audio panel replacement, but I’m hoping for something less dense and more idiot-proof..

I have a perfectly functional GMA340 with stereo wiring to all seats. I’ve been thinking about swapping it for a GMA345 or a PMA450 really just to get Bluetooth and a USB-C jack. 

I'm only really interested in this if I can remove two screws, slide out the old one, and slide in the new one. Is that all there is to this? I mean, aside from the logbook entry? Or is it more complicated than that?

It really is that simple, if you have a nice working 340  there are numerous new panels designed to fit the same tray and basic wiring.  you literally unscrew  it, pull it out the panel, slide new one in place, tighten screw.

the newer panels may have features the old panel didn't have and will require additional wiring work.

i will say bluetooth and usb are nice,  i love being able to call clearance or the wife from the plane, you can also record audio using the bluetooth.  usb port is perfect for my efb.    You can also sell the 340, may make the replacement hurt less.

I went with a pma8000g, awesome panel.

 

 

[Rwsavory]

4 hours ago, AndreiC said:

I'm interested to hear more about this. My plane has an ancient King KA-134 audio panel, and I am concerned that sometimes after you use the speaker button the audio panel loses all functionality (the audio from the radios goes neither to the headsets nor to the speaker). Lately I decided to never use the speaker button any more.

I was thinking of getting a PMA7000BT installed in its place. I think the extra 1/3" can be found somewhere above, without having to move the entire stack. (The KA134 is 1" tall, while the PMA is 1.33".)

My question is to what extent this is something that can be done by my A&P, with my help, instead of having to go to an expensive avionics shop; and also if it is possible to do the work in two stages, a first one that only involves installing the new tray and rewiring the plugs in the back, while reusing the mono wires that go to the headset plugs, and a second stage replacing the headset wires and plugs.

Does any of this make any sense? The problem is that my avionics shop quoted 2.5-3 AMU for a complete install of a nice audio panel...

The reason for that quote is that it’s a lot of work. Everything is going through that panel. I would stick with a shop that has experience doing these, as a mistake can be very difficult to correct. Especially if you fly with passengers and do IFR flying, it’s definitely worth it.

[KSMooniac]

2 minutes ago, Rwsavory said:

The reason for that quote is that it’s a lot of work. Everything is going through that panel. I would stick with a shop that has experience doing these, as a mistake can be very difficult to correct.

Correct... the installation is a ton of work since it connects to (typically) 2 coms, 2 navs, overhead speaker, 2-4 intercom jacks, and maybe some unswitched inputs as well as power & ground and perhaps a dimmer circuit.  You can probably download an installation manual and look at the schematic to get a full sense of the task.  It is further complicated if you have no service loops in the existing harness (like mine!) and need to add or replace a pin or two in a 50-pin connector that is not accessible behind a Garmin tray.  

It is a buy once/cry once decision IMO... just skip the intermediate steps and try to bring it up to modern greatness in one operation, including wiring your jacks for stereo, maybe adding a hardwire music input or two as well.  It is worth it.

[Echo]

Meh.  I bought both used for peanuts on Ebay and have stereo music and phone into my Bose ANR (non-aviation with Harmony boom mic) headset.  Sound quality is great.  Latest and greatest is great, but not necessary to have quality stereo in the cockpit.

[EricJ]

15 hours ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

As a pilot with the ancient push button audio panel, I'm curious what is better about the new ones.

I mean stereo music to everyone sounds good, but everyone has bluetooth. I can hear the radio fine. I can hear other people reasonably.

What more do you get?

The PMA450 has a few features that are really nice, including multiple BT inputs and music inputs.   You can basically have four people listening to whatever they want to and not have to bother with what anybody else is doing.   The "intelliaudio" is way more useful than I expected, in that it allows you to put Com1 and Com2 to in spatially separated zones, i.e., Com1 a bit more to the left, Com2 a bit more to the right, and you control whether they're separated and by how much.   I don't have them separated by much, but it's enough that you just know whether what you just heard came from Com1 or Com2 by whether it was a bit more on your right or left.   It's pretty natural after a while so that you don't even think about it.

I think there are others that do this, too, but I've done phone calls through mine in flight pretty easily.   Music is a breeze.   The display on the PMA450 shows the battery level of your phone, so you can keep it in your pocket and still know what's going on there.   

 

15 hours ago, toto said:

I’ve gone back and forth on that. I really like that the PSE folks seem to have amazing customer service, and participate/respond to questions on MooneySpace probably better than any other vendor.

My biggest hesitation with the PS unit is the soft keys. I think I prefer the real, dedicated buttons to the soft keys with the LCD. Seems easier to deal with when bouncing around, and I don’t mind needing to crack open the manual for the occasional device pairing or whatever.

But I could certainly be convinced otherwise. What do you love about the PS unit over the Garmin unit?

The soft keys are actually a plus.    They don't change unless you push a soft key, and the arrangement and display management is pretty intuitive.   Normal operations, like selecting com1, com2, nav, xmit side, ISO, etc., don't involve the soft keys.   They're only used for more occassional stuff, so they're really a non-issue, imho.