G100UL - fuel leak

[McMooney]

17 hours ago, MikeOH said:

I absolutely got your point; it's the same as mine: it's going to take YEARS for the effects unleaded avgas to play out, G100UL or anything else. Precisely why I 'have a beef' with Kalifornia governmental overreach!  And those in other states should be concerned, as well.  For, if Kalifornia prevails in its ban, other states will soon follow.

I don't understand why everyone keeps blaming california, it's been 50 years, they marked a line in the sand.  unfortunately, we are a minority of minorities, more cars passed your airport yesterday then all ga planes still flying.  i'm just trying to say it's coming and isn't going to wait for our antiques to keep up

[A64Pilot]

11 minutes ago, tony said:

and they paid for a lot over overhauls

They have deep pockets and could, a smaller company couldn’t.

But that wasn’t my point, my point is that it took seven years for the issues to play out to the point that the product was pulled. We hope / expect for timelines much shorter than that, think “testing” can be done quickly, but sometimes especially materials compatibility effects take a lot longer to show up, we may not know for sure for a long time.

[T. Peterson]

12 minutes ago, McMooney said:

I don't understand why everyone keeps blaming california, it's been 50 years, they marked a line in the sand.  unfortunately, we are a minority of minorities, more cars passed your airport yesterday then all ga planes still flying.  i'm just trying to say it's coming and isn't going to wait for our antiques to keep up

50 years……..doesn’t seem to be a lot of angst over the fate of the little children!

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, McMooney said:

I don't understand why everyone keeps blaming california, it's been 50 years, they marked a line in the sand.  unfortunately, we are a minority of minorities, more cars passed your airport yesterday then all ga planes still flying.  i'm just trying to say it's coming and isn't going to wait for our antiques to keep up

Hmm, our country has a history of passing laws to PROTECT minority populations; I guess minorities of minorities get laws passed against them!  And, you're okay with that, apparently. I am not.  Whatever is 'coming' should be based on RATIONAL, not EMOTIONAL, reasons.  In another post I shared the results of a government study (southern California Air Quality Management District) that showed the airborne lead levels around Whiteman Airport (KWHP) to be no greater than in the Los Angeles basin as a whole.  Further, the levels were way below the Federal limit!  Yet, many here on an aviation forum, of all places, seem perfectly okay with rolling over to, at the very least, paint staining, swollen O-rings, and a higher price to 'solve' what, in reality, is a political issue, NOT a health one!  Frankly, unbelievable.

The Consent Decree is not only unclear on what constitutes "commercially available" fuel but is based, originally, on the fact that Proposition 65 warnings were not adequately provided to residents surrounding airports (as well as proper airport signage).  This is the basis for the 'lead free' requirement.  Thing is, Prop 65 covers all kinds of chemicals that pose a potential "risk to society", not just lead.  It turns out things like benzene and toluene are also covered by Prop 65.  So, once the NIMBYS and real estate developers "get the lead out" of our fuel, what do you think is going to happen next?  This is entirely POLITICAL.

At what point are YOU going to fight for your freedom to fly?

So, yes, I blame Kalifornia. They have long been the leader in restricting freedoms.

[T. Peterson]

8 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Hmm, our country has a history of passing laws to PROTECT minority populations; I guess minorities of minorities get laws passed against them!  And, you're okay with that, apparently. I am not.  Whatever is 'coming' should be based on RATIONAL, not EMOTIONAL, reasons.  In another post I shared the results of a government study (southern California Air Quality Management District) that showed the airborne lead levels around Whiteman Airport (KWHP) to be no greater than in the Los Angeles basin as a whole.  Further, the levels were way below the Federal limit!  Yet, many here on an aviation forum, of all places, seem perfectly okay with rolling over to, at the very least, paint staining, swollen O-rings, and a higher price to 'solve' what, in reality, is a political issue, NOT a health one!  Frankly, unbelievable.

The Consent Decree is not only unclear on what constitutes "commercially available" fuel but is based, originally, on the fact that Proposition 65 warnings were not adequately provided to residents surrounding airports (as well as proper airport signage).  This is the basis for the 'lead free' requirement.  Thing is, Prop 65 covers all kinds of chemicals that pose a potential "risk to society", not just lead.  It turns out things like benzene and toluene are also covered by Prop 65.  So, once the NIMBYS and real estate developers "get the lead out" of our fuel, what do you think is going to happen next?  This is entirely POLITICAL.

At what point are YOU going to fight for your freedom to fly?

So, yes, I blame Kalifornia. They have long been the leader in restricting freedoms.

Well said!!
I read an article yesterday reporting that the state government of Vermont is trying to sue the oil companies for contributing to negative climate changes that have impacted Vermont. They are looking for such evidence going all the way back to 1995. Apparently the recent storms which ravaged Vermont are attributable to the nefarious activities of the oil companies dating back to the 90’s.

This is exactly what we can expect when lunacy in government goes unchecked. Those who prefer to bow when they could fight, will soon find a time when they can neither bow low enough or fight hard enough to stem the tyranny which has ravished so many of our state governments.

[FlyingDude]

28 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

your freedom to fly?

It's thousands of people's livelihood. Generates earnings and taxes. 

[Coachella Bravo]

On 12/25/2024 at 12:08 AM, PeteMc said:

I believe it is a major issue if you live near an airport and have children.  Or your children go to a school that is near or under an approach to an airport.  And yes, regardless of the number of parents and children that are directly impacted, you are not going to find a government official that is not going to make a big deal about it. 

And yes, in many cases where they are actually close to the airport, there is a major health issue.  So a small number that have a BIG voice. 

 

I live on an airpark and to date have not heard a peep from the local population re "lead poisoning" . There are 2 schools in close proximity to the departure end of the prevailing runway. Perhaps like almost all issues in this glorious country, ones acceptance of a green agenda overshadows logic.  However, I flew into and out of Santa Monica for about 10 years and look what happened there.

[A64Pilot]

Lead is a naturally occurring substance of course, there are areas where it’s mined for instance where people always have had higher lead levels than average.

I believe that still the source of lead in peoples bodies is by an overwhelming margin old paint, but going after rich men’s toys is much easier and a pretty easy sell to the masses.

It’s similar say to fluoride, in West Tx in particular average well waters fluoride levels are orders of magnitude higher than any treated water, it’s so high it causes their teeth to be stained. I’m sure there are areas where lead occurs naturally that are similar.

It drives environmentalists nuts but the truth is the old adage “The solution to pollution is dilution” 

What I continue to not understand though is we don’t need Diesels, nor do we need some witches brew of chemicals to get rid of lead.

So when will “they” realize that we don’t have any kind of emission controls on our aircraft? Will that be next?

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

Hmm, our country has a history of passing laws to PROTECT minority populations; I guess minorities of minorities get laws passed against them!  And, you're okay with that, apparently. I am not.  Whatever is 'coming' should be based on RATIONAL, not EMOTIONAL, reasons.  In another post I shared the results of a government study (southern California Air Quality Management District) that showed the airborne lead levels around Whiteman Airport (KWHP) to be no greater than in the Los Angeles basin as a whole.  Further, the levels were way below the Federal limit!  Yet, many here on an aviation forum, of all places, seem perfectly okay with rolling over to, at the very least, paint staining, swollen O-rings, and a higher price to 'solve' what, in reality, is a political issue, NOT a health one!  Frankly, unbelievable.

The Consent Decree is not only unclear on what constitutes "commercially available" fuel but is based, originally, on the fact that Proposition 65 warnings were not adequately provided to residents surrounding airports (as well as proper airport signage).  This is the basis for the 'lead free' requirement.  Thing is, Prop 65 covers all kinds of chemicals that pose a potential "risk to society", not just lead.  It turns out things like benzene and toluene are also covered by Prop 65.  So, once the NIMBYS and real estate developers "get the lead out" of our fuel, what do you think is going to happen next?  This is entirely POLITICAL.

At what point are YOU going to fight for your freedom to fly?

So, yes, I blame Kalifornia. They have long been the leader in restricting freedoms.

I do agree, but 50 years is a long time, at what point in the last 50 years did ga not know this was coming.   i think i read an article the other day from something like 1978 ?  what are we going to do when the leaded plant blows up?  I'd bet 100$ they wouldn't put it back in service.   obv, market forces alone have  not been enough to push the issue, what to do?    

for sure, I WANT TO FLY,  i'll be standing right next to you in the picket line but i'm very much a pragmatic person, ice skating up hill is difficult.   we have gami, ul94 and soon 100r,  sounds about as good as it's going to get. 

 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, T. Peterson said:

Well said!!
I read an article yesterday reporting that the state government of Vermont is trying to sue the oil companies for contributing to negative climate changes that have impacted Vermont. They are looking for such evidence going all the way back to 1995. Apparently the recent storms which ravaged Vermont are attributable to the nefarious activities of the oil companies dating back to the 90’s.

This is exactly what we can expect when lunacy in government goes unchecked. Those who prefer to bow when they could fight, will soon find a time when they can neither bow low enough or fight hard enough to stem the tyranny which has ravished so many of our state governments.

So what do you do when your policies leave your municipality broke beyond belief?

Well you could become fiscally responsible, or you could just do this

 https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/new-york-fine-fossil-fuel-companies-75-billion-under-new-climate-law-2024-12-26/

[PeteMc]

24 minutes ago, Coachella Bravo said:

I live on an airpark and to date have not heard a peep from the local population re "lead poisoning" .

Airpark as in a limited number of plane? 10 or 20?  My guess/hope is that you never would.  Any news or print article I've ever seen regarding this (and it's been a while since I've seen one) were all metro areas.  So a LOT more traffic, fuel exhaust and a LOT more busy bees trying to make a statement.  

I'm actually not opposed to the concern as it is a known issue.  But the bigger question is which came first, the airport or the school.  I'd be all over the City/Co to move the school since they put it in a dangerous place.  But that's not going to happen any time soon. 

 

[PeteMc]

10 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

So what do you do when your policies leave your municipality broke beyond belief?

Well you could become fiscally responsible, or you could just do this

Gotta love it!!!!  I moved from NYC to WA state recently.  WA has a gas tax that was suppose to... well, not sure what it was supposed to do...  but it was to help with the environment.  AND!!! The fuel companies were going to pay for it!!!  Do I even need to tell you about the extra cost we're all paying at the pump.  Of Course the companies are going to absorb the cost of the tax!  

But luckily I live close to the ID boarder.  Costco gas was $2.79ish the other day when I was in Coeur d'Alene.

 

Edited Saturday at 10:08 PM by PeteMc

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

So what do you do when your policies leave your municipality broke beyond belief?

Well you could become fiscally responsible, or you could just do this

 https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/new-york-fine-fossil-fuel-companies-75-billion-under-new-climate-law-2024-12-26/

Sadly, that's what it is coming to.  People need to wake up that THEY are paying that 75 billion, not the 'evil' oil company.

[Pinecone]

On 1/4/2025 at 11:20 AM, gabez said:

I just want to bring back this topic to my reality. I did not have a leak, the leak happened within a week of using G100 and it was massive. If there was a leak before I would have seen blue stain everywhere. My plane will finally go in on monday so we should know by this coming week. 

One thing that popped up as I was talking on the side with Mike Luvara and the owner of the encore is that I have aux tanks, while the owner of the encore did not, the aux and main are connected with a hose basically (there is probably someone here that can explain it better), that part of the plane is original so perhaps something happened in between the tanks not inside the tanks. 

Yes, I understand you situation, and hope that there is a reasonable fix.

Yes, the Monroy "aux" tanks connect to the main tanks through a couple of fittings and and elbow.  But I don't think that there is a piece of hose there.  But it should be pretty easy to check that.

Also, I don't recall, where was your leak?  Outboard of the main?  Nearly to the outboard end?

Also, there is the possibility that when your aux tanks were installed, the sealer was not properly applied. Out of date, or mixed improperly, or beyond the pot life.

That. IMO, is the big issue.  There are SO many variables.

[Pinecone]

On 1/4/2025 at 7:40 PM, MikeOH said:

Sadly, that's what it is coming to.  People need to wake up that THEY are paying that 75 billion, not the 'evil' oil company.

And they need to realize that their 401K or other retirement is invested in those same companies, so they WANT them to make lots of money.

[MikeOH]

3 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

And they need to realize that their 401K or other retirement is invested in those same companies, so they WANT them to make lots of money.

WOW, you have got to be the ONLY person I’ve ever heard that wants higher gas prices so their 401k goes up

[gabez]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Yes, I understand you situation, and hope that there is a reasonable fix.

Yes, the Monroy "aux" tanks connect to the main tanks through a couple of fittings and and elbow.  But I don't think that there is a piece of hose there.  But it should be pretty easy to check that.

Also, I don't recall, where was your leak?  Outboard of the main?  Nearly to the outboard end?

Also, there is the possibility that when your aux tanks were installed, the sealer was not properly applied. Out of date, or mixed improperly, or beyond the pot life.

That. IMO, is the big issue.  There are SO many variables.

outboard of the main, inboard of the aux. from the outside it's on the aux access panel and the joint between two skins

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

WOW, you have got to be the ONLY person I’ve ever heard that wants higher gas prices so their 401k goes up

I didn't say that.  Get real.

But I do want companies that I invest with to make a nice profit.  Best would be by lowering costs.

[Pinecone]

47 minutes ago, gabez said:

outboard of the main, inboard of the aux. from the outside it's on the aux access panel and the joint between two skins

Hmm, I would really want to pull the panel and take a look inside.

[gabez]

9 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Hmm, I would really want to pull the panel and take a look inside.

they are picking the plane up today so I should have pics by mid week