Who has built a hangar?

[rturbett]

I'm looking for any guidance, advice, experiences, pitfalls.  So much more fun to learn from others mistakes!

Still puzzled why you have to buy the door from someone else....

 

Thanks,

Rob

[Mooneymite]

39 minutes ago, rturbett said:

I'm looking for any guidance, advice, experiences, pitfalls.  So much more fun to learn from others mistakes!

Still puzzled why you have to buy the door from someone else...

Thanks,

Rob

Rob, I built a hangar about 25 years ago.  At the time, a 50X50 steel was about the same price as cinder block and stick.  I chose steel with brick facing.  Many of my neighbors in our community went in other directions.  After 20 years, none of us have regrets....owning your own hangar on your own land is the greatest.  Just do it.  I went with the bifold door, but the stack doors have stood up well and the hydraulic swing doors have really become popular.

If I have one regret, it is that the contractor did not pour the concrete floor carefully and that has been a shortfall I've lived with every day for 25 years.

Edited June 17 by Mooneymite

[KSMooniac]

I've been casually researching/studying for a while now as I plan to build on an airpark in the not-too-distant future.  The door system is an engineered product that that is more complicated than a building, and IMO that is why there are a variety of door types and manufacturers to satisfy a dizzying-array of possibilities.  The rest of the building is easier IMO, but subject to local codes that a function of location (think wind/snow loads, etc).  Beware that there are any number of steel building "companies" that may be re-selling some other building kit, and may or may not erect them or subcontract that out.  You'll want to know all of those details before making a purchase.  

My baseline is a single-panel hydraulic door versus a bifold.  These are supposed to be structurally self-contained and thus won't impart any loads on the building... I like that as a structural engineer.  I like the hydraulic drive versus electric motors and cables or straps like my current rental hangar.  Although the bifold is light years better than the crappy sliding doors I had in my first rental hangar!  The hydraulic doors typically have a manual drive to use in a power outage situation, which I think is a great idea in my part of the country and especially where we'll be building.  

Other details to consider... construction type (wood or steel frame), baggy insulation or structural insulated panels, concrete finish, in-floor heating, etc.  How much power do you need, and where do you need it?  What are the restrictions in your area?  A hangar can be a simple pole barn with a dirt floor, or a highly engineered concrete bunker style with a shiny floor, or a beautiful timberframe masterpiece.  

Would you build on your own dirt, or leased at a public airport?  If the latter, what are the terms?  How will you use it?  (multiple planes, sub-lease some of it, include an office)

I'd like room for multiple planes and would like to rent a space until I can fill it up with my own fleet someday.  I want room for a lift for cars and a Mooney, with enough ceiling clearance.  I plan to build my home office into one end/corner with a mezzanine storage above, as well as a bathroom and room for a small fridge & wet bar, TV, etc.  I'd like in-floor radiant heat, and a floor drain for washing operations.  I also want 220V service for the mill, air compressor, hopefully a welder some day, etc.  

Other tidbits I've gleaned... hangars come in two sizes:  "too small" and "not big enough."  Some advocate for sizing a hangar to fit the largest possible plane that might be able to operate on your field to maximize resale value, and include a door big enough as well.  That is good advice if your budget supports it, but there is a big difference in a hangar for a single Mooney versus a G700...  My site has a modest runway so no jets, but I want to make sure I can fit a King Air, or a Cessna on amphibious floats as two extremes.  That decision sets the minimum door size, and then the building is designed around it from there.  You might want a separate overhead door for vehicles, and a conventional entry door to go in and out easily without opening a big door and letting the heat (or cool air) out.  

Anyway, there is a lot to consider!  I've outlined my dream build but haven't drawn it up yet, much less gotten any estimates that might crush my dream.

[exM20K]

I went with stick-built frame on an insulated foundation. Pole barns cost less but are more difficult to finish than 16” on-center studs.  
 

I sided it with cedar siding to match the house.  Metal buildings may be cheaper, but they really don’t fit in well among homes if everything else is residential.

I did not elect to put radiant heat in the floor and went with suspended gas burners. I would do radiant floor heat if I were to get a do-over. Suspended radiant may not be code, depending on how far from fuel (wings) they are.

I went with a hydroswing door rather than bi-fold only because there were no bi-fold doors available after a sporty hurricane season in Florida (2004-5).  I don’t regret going with the single piece door. It seals very well, is easy to insulate, and offers a big area of shade in the summer.

if possible, face the door south and choose blacktop for the ramp. North-facing doors get snow piled up against them, and south fac8ng blacktop ramps will melt light snowfall with a little sun.

as with any construction project, bring extra money and allow extra time.

living in a fly-in community for the last 2 decades has been a very good experience for us.

-dan

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, KSMooniac said:

My baseline is a single-panel hydraulic door versus a bifold.  These are supposed to be structurally self-contained and thus won't impart any loads on the building... I like that as a structural engineer.  I like the hydraulic drive versus electric motors and cables or straps like my current rental hangar.  Although the bifold is light years better than the crappy sliding doors I had in my first rental hangar!  The hydraulic doors typically have a manual drive to use in a power outage situation, which I think is a great idea in my part of the country and especially where we'll be building. 

My hydroswing had some real head-scratchers on installation.  The posts to which it blunts are 6 or 8 2x8 lumber, and it was really moving those stub walls. We put steel I beams and 3/8” fish plates lagged into them to stop the movement, but it was still significant and no bueno. 
 

Solution? Hydroswing shipped the frame in two sections: top and bottom, connected with a plug and bolts. This arrangement is where the movement started, and after another piece of steel was welded in p,Ace over this junction, the movement stopped.  Dunno if they still make them that way, but if there is any movement, stop it where it is rather than trying to band-aid it downstream.

Once we got that sorted, the one-piece door has been very satisfactory.

-dan

 

 

[rturbett]

Since this will be a northern Florida location, heat not needed, but still want to insulate to protect from too much heat, and should simplify roof loads (no snow?)- although I can envision putting solar on this. Good to address this on the front end to ensure the roof is matched to the expected load for the building permits

While this is putting the cart well before the horse- Plan on a Mooney party at FD22 in the future....  Thanks for all the thoughts and insight.

Rob

[BlueSky247]

Another vote for stick built unless you plan on leaving the interior unfinish pole barn skins and steel building expand and contract a lot, and you don’t want to attach anything to that outer skin. Which means you end up losing a little space. 
 

if you do want a steel building, go with Red Steel and crack open that wallet. 

[exM20K]

17 minutes ago, rturbett said:

Since this will be a northern Florida location, heat not needed

Ah, missed that.  The biggest challenge with our florida hangar at AAF is the ramp pitch and sliding door rails. And mud daubers. That hangar is in a row of T hangars, so keeping the humidity out is impossible.  It's probably better inland where you are WRT humidity.

-dan

[Z W]

Building the structure is only one part.  Before you get there, you will need to figure out how to buy or lease the ground.

Federally funded airports are prohibited from selling any portion of the ground.  So hangars there are built on long-term land leases.  The terms and cost of those vary greatly.

Some airports will only do a 20 year lease, and want you to pay more in ground rent than you would pay to rent another hangar on the field.

Others will give you a 50 year lease for $10.00 per year, just glad to have someone putting up a hangar and driving more traffic to the field.

In all cases, at the end of the lease, the ground reverts to the federally founded airport operator, and usually, the building belongs to them too.  If you're still there, you will have to negotiate a new lease for your use of the hangar you built.

The above does not apply on private strips, and maybe not for through-the-fence arrangements where you own the ground but have access to a federally funded runway.  But those situations are sometimes even more complicated.

Also, don't forget to factor in the cost of pouring the ramp, and maybe additional taxiways.

[BDPetersen]

While I built a pole barn hangar once, I purchased a 60x42 pole barn type structure on the airport. It never had a successful door at that time. I was familiar with the Ultimate Door being sold as plans and parts in the EAA magazine. I built a 48’ version that has withstood 32 years of use, so far. Extremely minimalistic, stick, cable, garage door track, fiberglass (type) skin, harbor freight winch. Probably not what you had in mind, but it keeps the weather out and the translucent panels let the light in.

[67 m20F chump]

I live on a runway.  My house was one of the later builds.  I looked at everyone’s hangar to see what I liked and what didn’t work.

You can’t build big enough.  Make the door taller and wider than you think you would ever need.  I now have a camper in my hangar and it fits under the door by 4”.  Don’t go short on concrete.  Make sure you have a large spot to park in front of your hangar.

 

I live in the south so I used bubble insulation under the roof but not on the wall.  Maybe I should have put some on the wall facing the sun.

I got a high fold door and have been happy with it.  The hangar is a pole barn.  Good luck!

Edited June 18 by 67 m20F chump
Add pic

[MB65E]

3 hours ago, BDPetersen said:

While I built a pole barn hangar once, I purchased a 60x42 pole barn type structure on the airport. It never had a successful door at that time. I was familiar with the Ultimate Door being sold as plans and parts in the EAA magazine. I built a 48’ version that has withstood 32 years of use, so far. Extremely minimalistic, stick, cable, garage door track, fiberglass (type) skin, harbor freight winch. Probably not what you had in mind, but it keeps the weather out and the translucent panels let the light in.

Helped build one of those doors for my Grandpa in Adams WI. The light was great, the heat in the winter from the light was nice too. Felt like tooth picks before the door was rigged. Once it was rigged it was really nice. I’m sure that door is still on the hangar. 35y later. 
-Matt 

[Yetti]

I recently went to paint the markings on the helipad we put in by the station.   I took a square to try and do a good job.   After placing the square on the corner of the slab, i gave up and put it away.     Better not to know and hammer to fit, paint to match like the ones before me did.

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

hammer to fit, paint to match

When I used to drive beaters, I carried two toolboxes at all times.  One of the two boxes was dedicated to hammers.  I never worried about paint.

[geoffb]

On 6/17/2024 at 3:44 PM, rturbett said:

I'm looking for any guidance, advice, experiences, pitfalls.  So much more fun to learn from others mistakes!

Still puzzled why you have to buy the door from someone else....

 

Thanks,

Rob

Looked at this and where I live, the ROI just isn't there.  I can rent 2 hangars for 20 years for the cost of construction of something 45 x 45 with a decent door.

my dad's at SDC.

[KSMooniac]

10 minutes ago, geoffb said:

Looked at this and where I live, the ROI just isn't there.  I can rent 2 hangars for 20 years for the cost of construction of something 45 x 45 with a decent door.

my dad's at SDC.

This is very true in many instances, but everyone's situation is different.  I know my dream hangar that I hope to start within the next 12-18 months will cost more than continuing to rent my municipal T-hangar.  The difference, though, will be having my hangar next to our new house on an airpark, and the expense of doing that is worth it to me since I spend so much time in the hangar already.  If all I did was fly my plane, then having a clean, insulated and comfortable hangar would be far less important and I likely would be less inclined so spent an airplane's worth of money on a build.  My rental hangar is a in a great location with a runway view, is ~15 minutes to my current house, and has a reasonable rental rate compared to what I see in other municipalities.  I know lots of people would love to have what I currently have.  I suspect paying rent for 20 more years might only equal half of what we might spend on a build, but quality of life improvements and convenience are what I'm after now.  I dislike freezing and boiling while working on my plane, and want more room and organization, a better floor, more light, etc.

Others cannot get hangars anywhere within an hour of their houses, and I cannot imagine how awful that would be as an aircraft owner, especially if doing a lot of their own work on the plane.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, geoffb said:

Looked at this and where I live, the ROI just isn't there.  I can rent 2 hangars for 20 years for the cost of construction of something 45 x 45 with a decent door.

my dad's at SDC.

Is there not an ROI even considering a builder may have an appreciated asset at the end of that time?

[Mooneymite]

3 hours ago, geoffb said:

Looked at this and where I live, the ROI just isn't there.  I can rent 2 hangars for 20 years for the cost of construction of something 45 x 45 with a decent door.

my dad's at SDC.

If you build on leased airport property, it probably is a tough call.  I built on my own land in a fly in community so when I time out, and the hangar is sold, I'm guessing at the very least, hangaring my plane was free.  It's tough to recoup rent money.

[rturbett]

4 hours ago, geoffb said:

Looked at this and where I live, the ROI just isn't there.  I can rent 2 hangars for 20 years for the cost of construction of something 45 x 45 with a decent door.

my dad's at SDC.

I'm relatively new to KSDC- just meeting people there- what does he fly?

[geoffb]

19 hours ago, rturbett said:

I'm relatively new to KSDC- just meeting people there- what does he fly?

T-Craft on floats.