Bravo oil - looking for wisdom

[Fritz1]

Did an out of town oil change and put in Phillips X/C 20W50 instead of the usual Shell W100Plus. To my surprise oil consumption went down substantially, 12h/1.5qts = 8h/qt, with the Shell I was getting 5-6h/qt. on a 800h factory reman. Discussed hi temp performance of the XC with a Phillips engineer and it appears better than the Shell single weight, low temp startup performance is superior anyhow. Thinking about switching. My A&P cautions, TIO-540 AF1B prone to sticky valves with multi weight oil. My oil consumption going down immediately and substantially already points to the Phillips coking up the valve guides or am I missing something?. Soo, robbing Peter to pay  Paul? Is the Phillips multi more prone to sticky valves in the Bravo engine than the Shell single weight and does that outweigh the benefits of the multi weight?? Thoughts??

[alextstone]

I had the same result when I switched from AS W100 to XC 20/50.  To reassure you, Lycoming lists 20/50 as an acceptable option, see photos.  I add CamGuard to mine.  They also mention in the manual service instruction 1014 which can be found here:   https://www.lycoming.com/service-instruction-no-1014n

Your mechanic should be eager to follow these pieces of "wisdom".

 

[Fritz1]

apparently no sticky valves, how many hours with the x/c?

[alextstone]

16 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

apparently no sticky valves, how many hours with the x/c?

600 hrs so far...@donkaye , what do you run in your engine?  

 

Alex

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

Did an out of town oil change and put in Phillips X/C 20W50 instead of the usual Shell W100Plus. To my surprise oil consumption went down substantially, 12h/1.5qts = 8h/qt, with the Shell I was getting 5-6h/qt. on a 800h factory reman. Discussed hi temp performance of the XC with a Phillips engineer and it appears better than the Shell single weight, low temp startup performance is superior anyhow. Thinking about switching. My A&P cautions, TIO-540 AF1B prone to sticky valves with multi weight oil. My oil consumption going down immediately and substantially already points to the Phillips coking up the valve guides or am I missing something?. Soo, robbing Peter to pay  Paul? Is the Phillips multi more prone to sticky valves in the Bravo engine than the Shell single weight and does that outweigh the benefits of the multi weight?? Thoughts??

I had three Bravos over the years. I ran XC 20/50 in all of them no problem with sticky valves ever.  Very low oil consumption in all of them once I found out not to put the recommended amount of oil in. This engine blows out anything past a certain point. Mine seemed to do fine at 8 qts.

[Fritz1]

ok, thank you, sold on the XC 20/50!

[Rick Junkin]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

This engine blows out anything past a certain point. Mine seemed to do fine at 8 qts.

+1 on Phillips XC 20W50 and Camguard.

At oil change I put in 2 gallons of 20W50 and a full bottle of Camguard. That puts my oil level just under 8 quarts after the leak check engine run. I get about 12-14 hours before the level drops just below 7 quarts and I add a quart and that takes me to the next oil change. My top end has about 500 hours on it.

Cheers,
Junkman

[Fritz1]

thank you, got it, Phillips makes the XC 20W50 Victory which has the Lycoming additive, opinions on that versus adding the camguard?

[Rick Junkin]

8 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

thank you, got it, Phillips makes the XC 20W50 Victory which has the Lycoming additive, opinions on that versus adding the camguard?

I know I read something comparing the two and I decided to not use the Victory. I'll see if I can find the article/technical paper.

Cheers,
Junkman

[slowflyin]

 I’m pretty sure Lycoming’s additive is an anti-scuff product.  Different purpose than Camguard.  

[Fritz1]

curious now, Lycoming additive is anti scuff, Camguard is anti scuff and anti corrosion?

[slowflyin]

35 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

curious now, Lycoming additive is anti scuff, Camguard is anti scuff and anti corrosion?

If my memory serves me, Lycoming is anti scuff and Camguard is anti corrosion.   My memory isn’t what it used to be so further research may be prudent.  .  Seems like Mike B. had some relevant information.  

[Rick Junkin]

Start with the last couple of paragraphs for the recommendation. The main body of the article details the TCP/TPP evolution and talks to the chemistry behind it all.

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/maintenance/phillips-66-new-oil-lycoming-additive/?amp=1

Cheers,
Junkman

[Dammit Bill]

thank you, got it, Phillips makes the XC 20W50 Victory which has the Lycoming additive, opinions on that versus adding the camguard?

I looked into the same thing. The victory has the additive required by Lycoming. I looked at victory and the regular plus Camguard. To me, it seemed a few dollars cheaper just to go with Victory. Also, Bravo oil changes are 25 hours. Right now, I look to be on track to doing an oil change every 3 to 4 months. Also, the plane does not sit for long periods at a time. I’m going Victory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fritz1]

This is my plan after the remaining shell 100plus has been used up, my only concern was coked valve guides which nobody has reported so they seem not to be an issue with the Phillips xc in the Bravo engine.

[alextstone]

11 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

This is my plan after the remaining shell 100plus has been used up, my only concern was coked valve guides which nobody has reported so they seem not to be an issue with the Phillips xc in the Bravo engine.

HI Fritz.  I am curious about this statement : "My A&P cautions, TIO-540 AF1B prone to sticky valves with multi weight oil".  I wonder what prompted him to say that.  Did he have experience with another Bravo aircraft / engine?  More than one?  Did he hear it somewhere?  Did he leap to that conclusion?  

 

Alex

[Coachella Bravo]

Ive read that Mike Bush runs Phillips X/C.

And this from Sportys Cam Guard Q/A

Q: Can camguard be used with Phillips 66 X/C Victory oil that has the lycoming LW16702 additive in it?

Yes, it can be used with Phillips 66, however, since the Phillips already has an additive, the benefits of Camguard may be reduced.

[Rick Junkin]

On 3/4/2024 at 7:03 PM, Bill C said:

The victory has the additive required by Lycoming.

Read the SBs (446 & 471) and SI 1409 regarding the use of LW-16702 carefully.

While Lycoming has approved the additive for all Lycoming piston engines that don't have a clutch mechanism that shares the engine oil sump, Lycoming requires the additive be used in the 0-320-H, O-360-E, LO-360-E, TO-360-E, LTO- 360-E, TIO and TIGO-541.

So while it won't hurt anything to use the additive in our TIO-540-AF1B, Lycoming doesn't require us to use it in our engine.

To each his own on the decision about what's best for your engine and operations.

Cheers,
Junkman

[Fly Boomer]

On 3/6/2024 at 1:08 PM, Coachella Bravo said:

Ive read that Mike Bush runs Phillips X/C.

Busch's 310 has Continental TSIO-520 engines.

[Fritz1]

I think my A&Ps concerns with multi weight oil in Lycoming engines comes from helicopter engines used in Robinson helicopters. These appear to run full throttle all the time and he claims there even was a Robinson service bulletin cautioning not to use the multi weight oil. The A&P states that he ran a fleet of these Robinsons with Lycoming engines, and was reaming a lot of valve guides so he went back to the Shell single weight. Be this as it may, apparently the Bravo engine does not run that hot after all and the valve guides do not coke using the Phillips X/C. Therefore I will give it a try after a lengthy discussion with a Phillips engineer who convinced me that his product outperforms the Shell single weight hot and cold and me sensing reduced oil consumption with the Phillips X/C. Maybe I just stuck with the Shell for so long because I like the red color of the cans.

[Danb]

I had my Bravo a 2005, from 2006 through 2023, only used aeroshell multi plus cam guard with no issues, changed oil every 25 hours or less great compression etc, engine was still like new when I sold it last year. Since my Acclaim has a continental which dislikes aeroshell I’m told so I use Phillips multi in it. Hopefully with same results as my lycoming had.

[donkaye]

On 3/2/2024 at 10:29 AM, alextstone said:

600 hrs so far...@donkaye , what do you run in your engine?  

 

Alex

I've used Phillips X/C 20/50 in all my 3 engines. I have been filling with 8 quarts and use about 1.5 quarts between 25 hour oil changes.  Recently Mark from Top Gun recommend only using 7 quarts, since I have been having some small amount of dripping from the breather tube, so I will try that in the future.

[affricate]

I've used Phillips X/C 20W50  in my Bravo since I purchased it.