IO 360 Tips and Tricks

[Dialed In]

Well I pulled my IO 360 A1A off the front of my E in the beginning of July and tore it down. I sent everything off for machining and everything has gone smoothly so far. I have everything back but the hardware I sent out to get cad plated.  My IA and I are going to assemble it here in a little over a week so I thought I would ask the brain trust for any tips or tricks they have. I know many of you do this type of thing for a living and obviously have gone through many engines, what are some things you do to make assembly go easier for you? I’m not asking for anything against the manual but just some of your tips and tricks you might be willing to let go of.  
 

There are a couple people I’d like to thank right off the bat. @N201MKTurbo Rich thanks for recommending nickson’s for the case, Rudy is hilarious and their work is phenomenal. @jetdriven thanks for the posts on 15B26588 lifters, they seem to be readily available now. Clarence you have helped in more ways than I can write down, literally every time I look something up you had the answer or a good tip losing you on this forum is huge. There have been many others that have contributed in the past (Cliffy) so thank you for bringing your experience and expertise to this forum. 

[KSMooniac]

There is a thread I just commented on re: porting & polishing... if it's not too late, go read that one and especially the Aviation Consumer article linked on Page 4.  I would make sure you get all of your rotating parts precision balanced (crank, rods, pistons) as well.  Reducing vibration starts on the inside of the engine, and will pay off in less fatigue loading on everything attached to the plane, and the people in the seats.  

EDIT:  here is the link:  https://www.aviationconsumer.com/misc/trick-cylinders-porting-and-polishing/

Be aware your pushrods might need to be swapped out/around to get proper clearances once you get it assembled.  Hopefully your IA has some, or you have another source.  Carefully torque the connecting rod bolts according to the manual.  

Hopefully you have a good engine monitor and have read guidance on break-in as well.  That is another topic...

[A64Pilot]

I’ve not read the article, but leave porting and polishing and 3 or 5 angle valve jobs for the experts, this is something you buy, not do yourself.

It really is a black art, and it is an art, it’s not a science. Besides the simple fact that you can do more harm than good the required tools are way beyond what the average mechanic has, although the simple die grinder and some home made bits are usually key, but a flow bench is required, to flow match which is important, it’s required for a smooth engine, it’s how you get four identical cylinders, like CCing the combustion chambers, the search for the perfect engine is endless and there is definitely a point of diminishing returns, it’s very easy to go way overboard and in truth realize very little return.

Usually the NASCAR engine builders are pretty good, pretty much everything else is the same from one engine to the next, the secret is in the heads, the porting is the difference between the race winner and everybody else.

I’m not a NASCAR fan myself. but readily admit that they have some good engine builders.

‘My engine was ported and polished and balanced within 1 gram, it’s a Gann Performance engine, but even Gann has a specialist that does the heads

[N201MKTurbo]

Make yourself a good assembly stand. I made one out of wood, it worked great. You will need a 2"-3" micrometer to torque the rod bolts. If you use the modern case sealants, you don't need the silk thread, which makes it a lot easier. Read the service bulletin about the case assembly.

[Dialed In]

I have watched a fair amount of videos in assembling these engines. Some use an assembly lube on the cam that the cam grinder recommended after coating the surfaces with the oil/stp concoction. Do any of you use assembly lube on top of the lycoming recommended lube? 
 

Lycon reconditioned the cylinders, the new angle valve cylinders were still a long ways out. I had them balanced and polished while they were there. 

[A64Pilot]

A stand would be nice, but I’ve always built on a high table, too poor for a stand, but it has to be one your not bent over unless your 30 or just young.

I’m a fan of silk thread myself and liquid copper coat, never had even a seep with it. I’m not sure what constitutes modern sealant, some swear by whatever Rolls Royce piston engines used. Some swear by Hylomar I think it’s called? Do NOT use Permatex Aviation form a gasket, that stuff is terrible, but someone will swear by it I’m sure, maybe it works for them.

I like lubriplate as an assy lube too, lots of it, you know you used enough when it squishes out. I don’t but I’ve even seen some pack the oil pump with it, I’m a pre-luber myself.

Most won’t but I scrub cylinders with hot soapy water, you would be surprised how much honing stone I get out of one doing that, but if you do, immediately dry it and oil coat it, I swear you can watch a cylinder rust, honestly go to lunch, come back and it will have rust on it if you don’t coat it in oil. You can clean with mineral spirits until you’re blue in the face, nothing cleans like hot, soapy water. I learned that building drag bikes as a kid.

[PT20J]

The Lycoming build-up lubricant is 15% STP and 85% SAE 50 non-detergent oil.

Lycoming approved case half sealants are RTV-102 or Loctite 515 per SI 1125D

[N201MKTurbo]

7 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

A stand would be nice, but I’ve always built on a high table, too poor for a stand, but it has to be one your not bent over unless your 30 or just young.

I’m a fan of silk thread myself and liquid copper coat, never had even a seep with it. I’m not sure what constitutes modern sealant, some swear by whatever Rolls Royce piston engines used. Some swear by Hylomar I think it’s called? Do NOT use Permatex Aviation form a gasket, that stuff is terrible, but someone will swear by it I’m sure, maybe it works for them.

I like lubriplate as an assy lube too, lots of it, you know you used enough when it squishes out. I don’t but I’ve even seen some pack the oil pump with it, I’m a pre-luber myself.

Most won’t but I scrub cylinders with hot soapy water, you would be surprised how much honing stone I get out of one doing that, but if you do, immediately dry it and oil coat it, I swear you can watch a cylinder rust, honestly go to lunch, come back and it will have rust on it if you don’t coat it in oil. You can clean with mineral spirits until you’re blue in the face, nothing cleans like hot, soapy water. I learned that building drag bikes as a kid.

Loctite 515 is very similar to Halomar.

[N201MKTurbo]

7 hours ago, Dialed In said:

I have watched a fair amount of videos in assembling these engines. Some use an assembly lube on the cam that the cam grinder recommended after coating the surfaces with the oil/stp concoction. Do any of you use assembly lube on top of the lycoming recommended lube? 
 

Lycon reconditioned the cylinders, the new angle valve cylinders were still a long ways out. I had them balanced and polished while they were there. 

My cam came with a tube of lube, I used it on the cam and lifters. It contains molybdenum disulphide. Everything else got assembly lube. I bought a clear ketchup type squeeze bottle at the store and filled it with assembly lube. It worked great and had the little cap for the nozzle to keep the dust out.  

[A64Pilot]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

My cam came with a tube of lube, I used it on the cam and lifters. It contains molybdenum disulphide. Everything else got assembly lube. I bought a clear ketchup type squeeze bottle at the store and filled it with assembly lube. It worked great and had the little cap for the nozzle to keep the dust out.  

Used to be back in the 70’s when I was building HP car motors ALL the cams came with Moly be damn grease as it’s a high pressure lubricant and hot rod motors with their excessive vale lift and spring pressures really push the limits a flat tappet cam can survive, and apparently the very first few minutes determine if a cam is going to be wiped early or not, also we ran high idles, like 1500 or higher for the cam for break-in, not sure if it was easier on the cam or maybe it was for increased oil flow.

I’ve not seen moly used in an aircraft cam, I think our spring pressures are relatively low compared to other engines. It’s one of those mysteries of why do Lycomings “eat” cams. Not saying you shouldn’t but I wonder what Lycoming’s take on moly be damn is on DLC lifters? It might be bad on the DLC coating? Just guessing I have no idea.

Moly is an excellent high pressure lube, but crazy as this sounds but I think it’s actually abrasive so you don’t want it in wheel bearings etc. I believe many modern “moly” greases are less than 5% Moly and they are cashing in on Moly’s rep but the percentage is so low that it can be used in wheel bearings, U-joints etc. Yes back in the day we used to lube U-joints and all kinds of things, many of us old guys still like greasable fittings, but I’ll admit the new sealed stuff outlasts the old greasable stuff. I put 250,000 miles on a Toyota Prius and never greased anything and even at 250,000 nothing was worn out, darned if I know how.

I’m not an STP fan, seen too much of the stuff in the bottoms of oil pans in cars.

I pre-lube just prior to starting, I pump two quarts of oil into the oil pressure port on the engine just prior to starting. I figure pumping in two quarts at 50 PSI gets oil in everywhere oil goes. It’s easy to do. The plug on the front of the case may be a better place as usually nothing is there, but I’ve not been able to get the plug out the one or two times I’ve tried. I’ve just not put enough pressure on it I guess, and I’ve not tried heat or an impact.

[A64Pilot]

I don’t understand why break in an engine on “mineral” oil. I don’t, I think it’s crap oil and there is more to break-in than cylinders. I want “good” oil on my cam and bearings at all times, especially during break-in.

Apparently Mike Busch has a similar opinion, I differ in that I don’t think Syn oil is bad to break in, and I want those additives that Lycoming requires to make the cam last. Isn’t cam break-in when an anti scuff additive is most important?

I run it like I stole it and fuel was free, that is first tank is at full throttle 5,000 Ft as the highest and maybe back off 100 0r 200 RPM in cruise, don’t touch the red knob, and in every instance break-in occurs pretty quick, well before first tank is burnt. Climb at very high speed cowl flaps open in fact don’t close them at all for break-in. I climb at 130 kts indicated, I’m after cooling not climb performance. After the first hour or two, do some pattern work. You don’t have to touch and go and you can leave the gear down. Idea is to vary power setting from wide open to much reduced. I don’t know if that’s truly required but many say it helps. I also think a couple of thermal cycles help, that is don’t do all the first tank in one day, let it cool overnight. During that cool down period go ahead and cut open the oil filter, there should be very little metal. If there is more than a tiny bit maybe you need to watch it, cut another filter in another hour or two and make sure metal is pretty much gone. I’ve always been lucky and never had any metal to speak of.

I change oil after the first tank of gas too, because I know 99% of break-in occurs very quickly and I don’t want those micro particles of metal in my oil. Break-in of course removes micro particles of steel from the cylinders.

I have no experience breaking in at a high altitude airport, but obviously you can, it’s done all the time.

I cut this from the linked article

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/january/pilot/savvy-maintenance-breaking-good

It’s also important to make sure that the oil film isn’t too strong to be breached, so the choice of break-in oil is important. Traditionally, break-in has been done using straight mineral oil that contains no synthetics, ashless dispersants, anti-wear/anti-scuff additives, or viscosity index improvers. In recent years, however, some manufacturers and engine shops have been moving away from using such primitive oil.

Synthetics have higher film strength than petroleum-based oils, which is obviously bad for break-in. Anti-wear/anti-scuff additives also should be avoided, since scuffing is precisely what we’re trying to achieve during break-in. However, I’ve seen no persuasive evidence that ordinary ashless dispersant (AD) oil is any less effective for break-in, and it keeps the engine cleaner, so I prefer to break in on AD oil. 

There is some controversy over whether it’s better to use single-weight oil or multigrade oil for break-in. I’ve mostly used Aeroshell W100 for break-in with good success. There’s a moderately persuasive argument that an all-petroleum multigrade oil such as Phillips X/C 20W-50 may be a better choice for break-in oil, and it’s what I used for break-in when the right engine of my Cessna 310 had a major overhaul in 2014 and I did a top overhaul of the left engine.

We want to avoid semi-synthetic oils such as Aeroshell 15W-50, oils with anti-wear/anti-scuff additives such as Aeroshell W100 Plus, and aftermarket anti-wear/anti-scuff additives such as CamGuard or Lycoming LW-16702. Don’t use any of these, even if you’ve just replaced one cylinder, until you’re confident that break-in is complete.

[Jsno]

I use the thread and sealant method of sealing the case and have no problems.  The sealant is just to hold the silk thread in place.  It will fill any minute voids in the surface.  

Take plenty of photos as you assemble so that if you don't remember if you positioned something correctly(gears), and safetied, it will be a good record.

I use moly grease on the cam and tappet faces.  I spray molycoat on the inside of the tappets, gears, cam face, and after it dries i lube the gears and cam.  

Watch those cylinders and the hollow crank.  They will rust very quickly on the inside if left dry.  Use dehydrate plugs on all openings if left to sit.

Be very careful assembling the two halves together  That front bearing will shift ever so slightly and set you back time and money.

You will have to grind down the end of the socket to fit on the rod bearings without the socket rubbing the rod end cut out to get a correct torque.  I had a machinist do this on a lathe on an impact socket.  Your IA may have this.

Be sure to install the rods with the numbers up.  This will be with two rods extended and two retracted on the crankshaft.  Not all extend or two will be upside down.  Lycoming told me this is for proper balance.

Using proper lube and torques are critical.  If you flub a stretch bolt, do  not reuse it.  They are on time use.  

Install the lower mount bolts before you install the mount on the airframe.  The will not fit with the mount on the airframe.

You will then spend an incredible amount of time reinstalling hoses, lines and hook ups when it is on the airplane.

Any questions on the manual, write Lycoming and get an answer before proceeding.  This will save grief later.

I learned everything above the hard way.

Good luck and take your time.

 

 

[Jsno]

Correction.  I meant to say the bolts are one time use.

[N201MKTurbo]

26 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I don’t understand why break in an engine on “mineral” oil. I don’t, I think it’s crap oil and there is more to break-in than cylinders. I want “good” oil on my cam and bearings at all times, especially during break-in.

Apparently Mike Busch has a similar opinion, I differ in that I don’t think Syn oil is bad to break in, and I want those additives that Lycoming requires to make the cam last. Isn’t cam break-in when an anti scuff additive is most important?

I run it like I stole it and fuel was free, that is first tank is at full throttle 5,000 Ft as the highest and maybe back off 100 0r 200 RPM in cruise, don’t touch the red knob, and in every instance break-in occurs pretty quick, well before first tank is burnt. Climb at very high speed cowl flaps open in fact don’t close them at all for break-in. I climb at 130 kts indicated, I’m after cooling not climb performance. After the first hour or two, do some pattern work. You don’t have to touch and go and you can leave the gear down. Idea is to vary power setting from wide open to much reduced. I don’t know if that’s truly required but many say it helps. I also think a couple of thermal cycles help, that is don’t do all the first tank in one day, let it cool overnight. During that cool down period go ahead and cut open the oil filter, there should be very little metal. If there is more than a tiny bit maybe you need to watch it, cut another filter in another hour or two and make sure metal is pretty much gone. I’ve always been lucky and never had any metal to speak of.

I change oil after the first tank of gas too, because I know 99% of break-in occurs very quickly and I don’t want those micro particles of metal in my oil. Break-in of course removes micro particles of steel from the cylinders.

I have no experience breaking in at a high altitude airport, but obviously you can, it’s done all the time.

I cut this from the linked article

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/january/pilot/savvy-maintenance-breaking-good

It’s also important to make sure that the oil film isn’t too strong to be breached, so the choice of break-in oil is important. Traditionally, break-in has been done using straight mineral oil that contains no synthetics, ashless dispersants, anti-wear/anti-scuff additives, or viscosity index improvers. In recent years, however, some manufacturers and engine shops have been moving away from using such primitive oil.

Synthetics have higher film strength than petroleum-based oils, which is obviously bad for break-in. Anti-wear/anti-scuff additives also should be avoided, since scuffing is precisely what we’re trying to achieve during break-in. However, I’ve seen no persuasive evidence that ordinary ashless dispersant (AD) oil is any less effective for break-in, and it keeps the engine cleaner, so I prefer to break in on AD oil. 

There is some controversy over whether it’s better to use single-weight oil or multigrade oil for break-in. I’ve mostly used Aeroshell W100 for break-in with good success. There’s a moderately persuasive argument that an all-petroleum multigrade oil such as Phillips X/C 20W-50 may be a better choice for break-in oil, and it’s what I used for break-in when the right engine of my Cessna 310 had a major overhaul in 2014 and I did a top overhaul of the left engine.

We want to avoid semi-synthetic oils such as Aeroshell 15W-50, oils with anti-wear/anti-scuff additives such as Aeroshell W100 Plus, and aftermarket anti-wear/anti-scuff additives such as CamGuard or Lycoming LW-16702. Don’t use any of these, even if you’ve just replaced one cylinder, until you’re confident that break-in is complete.

They want you to use mineral oil because it lets the wear metal sink to the bottom of the sump. The additive oil has detergents that will keep the metal in suspension. It has nothing to do with the lubricating ability of the oil. It does seem like having a full flow oil filter would reduce the need for break in oil. But I still do it by the book.

[A64Pilot]

It’s hard to fault going by the book, many many won’t warranty if you don’t, and that’s a concern of course, a big one.

The oil is circulated so quickly, and of course you have a whole bunch of stuff spinning and flying around it’s difficult to think any small particles would settle out, but who knows, maybe? Oil filters are to some extent gravel catchers, only filter to 30 microns and I want that stuff out, so I dump the oil pretty fast, compared to engine parts and labor oils cheap.

[N201MKTurbo]

I built a pre oiler per Doc's instructions from an old paint pot. It works great. I'm the official keeper of the airport's pre oiler at KCHD. it has pre oiled 6 engines so far. I tell everybody to just fill the sump with the pre oiler. which means to put your 8 or 12 quarts in using the pre oiler. It only takes 20 minutes or so even on a big engine. Most of the time is spend adding oil to the pre oiler. You want to time how long it takes to go through the oil you put in the pre oiler, On the last batch, you don't want to blow any air through the system, so you want to stop a minute or so before it runs out. In all cases when the engine is started, the oil pressure comes up immediately.

[A64Pilot]

I’m a big fan of pre-oiling.

One engine we couldn’t get pressure pre-oiling, so we pulled the engine and opened up the Accy case, somehow or another there was a thin washer between the oil pump body and the case so oil just leaked out there, if we didn’t pre-oil we wouldn’t have known of course until after starting.

I have no idea how that washer got there, I’ve always wondered about that.

[Pinecone]

You need SOME friction to break in the engine.  The rings have to wear and seat.  And the bearings have some wear to settle in also.  Synthetic oils are too slick and your rings will never seat and the cylinders will end up glazed.  Philips says you can used XC for break in, but there is no synthetic in it.

BMW runs their engines on the dyno with NO lube on the cylinders and rings.  They are broken in a less than a minute of running.  They do lube the bearings and lifters and other parts

I am not a fan of STP, but it is used in assembly to make sure the oil stays in place.  And it is premixed with the oil, so it doesn't settle to the bottom.

[jetdriven]

Continental in one of their service letters says to put Molykote assembly, grease on the face of the lifter when you reinstall it

[PT20J]

Lycoming SI 1059E has all the approved assembly lubricants.

[Dialed In]

I have a pressure pot I use for pre-oiling in my day job but in my day job I know where to hook it up to send the oil through the filter.  Is there a port on these engines that anyone knows about that would direct the new oil through the filter before going through the bearings? I have not looked or searched just though I would ask here first. 

[Dialed In]

And I have seen several people with crank stands that prefer to assemble the case 1/2’s on a bench then place it on the stand. Do those of you here that have crank stands build up the entire engine on the stand or is there a good reason to put the 1/2’s together first on a bench? My IA has a stand. 

[Dialed In]

Another question who here removes the piston from the head when they come back from overhaul to inspect, clean, measure?  And who installs them never taking the pistons out of the barrel with the theory it’s one less operation to risk breaking rings?

[PT20J]

24 minutes ago, Dialed In said:

Another question who here removes the piston from the head when they come back from overhaul to inspect, clean, measure?  And who installs them never taking the pistons out of the barrel with the theory it’s one less operation to risk breaking rings?

At the museum when we would get an overhauled cylinder it would come with piston and rings installed. We would pull the piston out far enough to install the wrist pin and then bolt it on. The theory is that if you buy an overhauled engine, you don't take it to pieces to measure everything, so why would you do that for an overhauled cylinder?

[Bartman]

Install all hoses on the back of the engine, and on the A3B6D install and time the magneto. Attach the mount to the engine, and install the entire assembly and the 4 mounting bolts with new hardware. Use the old upper mounting bolts as guide bolts for alignment in the opposite direction, then use the new bolts to push out the alignment bolts. I learned all of this from this forum, and it saved me a lot of time. The only thing I wish I had done differently was add a shim on each side in the lower engine mount to raise the spinner for proper alignment in the cowl opening. Had to do that afterwards.