Losing 1 QT Per Hr

[StevenL757]

15 hours ago, V1VRV2 said:

Pulled the bottom plugs today. No oil contamination. Exhaust is clean. No oil. The only source of the oil on the belly has to be coming from the breather. Why would the crankcase be pressurizing? 

L -

Are you using an air/oil separator?  When we installed a factory reman IO550N several years back on a previous Ovation, the Airwolf separator was identified by one of then-TCM’s mechanics at the Fairhope MX facility as being the culprit to generating excessive crankcase pressure.  The separator was removed and the problem immediately went away.

Also, I wouldn’t suggest ever adding more than 8 quarts of oil when doing a change…this is major overkill.  The IO550 will blow out anything over about 7 - 7.5 quarts in an effort to “settle” on what it wants.  Talk to Brian Kendrick if you haven’t already, or PM/call me and we can discuss and get you back on track.

Steve

[M20F]

9 hours ago, jlunseth said:

Or out the quick drain. Had the joy of that experience once, causing an emergency landing in Canada. Small fragment of plastic was caught in the quick drain seal. Oil loss got progressively worse of a couple of months. Little or no oil on the belly until the final episode.

There is that along with leaving the dipstick out.  In short though finding where it is going puts you on the right path to fix. 

[rickseeman]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:10 AM, M20F said:

Oil is going to go one of three places.  Out the breather and the belly will be coated.  Out the case and the cowling will be coated.  Out the exhaust and the exhaust pipe will be oily/coked.  Find where the oil is going and that will answer the question.  

That sounds good but so far nobody has figured out whats going on with some Ovations oil level. Mine looked 2 qts low so I added oil. Next time I checked it said 9. I didn't fill it to 9. It wasn't 2 qts low to begin with. It will drive you crazy and make you run to Mooneyspace for help.

[M20F]

4 hours ago, rickseeman said:

That sounds good but so far nobody has figured out whats going on with some Ovations oil level. Mine looked 2 qts low so I added oil. Next time I checked it said 9. I didn't fill it to 9. It wasn't 2 qts low to begin with. It will drive you crazy and make you run to Mooneyspace for help.

Few others in this thread have addressed that.  It’s a big engine so needs awhile to drain back into the pan.  Flat/24hrs since operation will give you a good reading.

[Pinecone]

Even my TSI-360 exhibits this.  I check the oil before flying, not right after as it always reads low right after flying.

[StevenL757]

@V1VRV2, any progress and/or update?  Curious as to how you’re getting on.

[rickseeman]

I checked mine again last week. I was up to nine. I don't put 9 in there. I try to run 7. So I wiped it off and tried again. Then it said 8. I've had over 100 engines and only 1 wicked up on the stick. That was an O-540 Lycoming. It did it all the time. What I think I need is a Wheel-of-Fortune spinning thing under the oil door. Then when I want to check the oil I can just open the door and spin it and go with that.

[Shadrach]

First order of business as a borescope and compression check

If that yields no clues than a crankcase pressure test is in order.

https://www.csobeech.com/files/TCM-SB-M89-9.pdf

If if all of the above is in order, then there is likely a leak.  Have you carefully inspected the bases of the cylinder barrels?

 

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, rickseeman said:

I checked mine again last week. I was up to nine. I don't put 9 in there. I try to run 7. So I wiped it off and tried again. Then it said 8. I've had over 100 engines and only 1 wicked up on the stick. That was an O-540 Lycoming. It did it all the time. What I think I need is a Wheel-of-Fortune spinning thing under the oil door. Then when I want to check the oil I can just open the door and spin it and go with that.

I'm afraid I can't add anything meaningful to the discussion at hand, but I'm curious how in the world you have had over 100 engines?

[rickseeman]

On 9/6/2023 at 12:14 PM, Fly Boomer said:

I'm afraid I can't add anything meaningful to the discussion at hand, but I'm curious how in the world you have had over 100 engines?

Engines in general. Cars, trucks, motorcycles, airplanes, helicopter, tractors, wells, power units, generators, bulldozer, excavator. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8,10 and 12 cylinder. Jeez, no wonder I've been busy.

[Z W]

My TSIO-360 will read 1 quart higher before take-off than after landing / while hot.  Very reliable.  It's just a quart of oil up in the engine that takes quite a while to drain back down into the pan.  E.G. 7 quarts before first flight of the day will read 6 if you check it at the fuel stop.  I usually let it get down to 6.5 cold, then fill to 7.5.  It holds 8 pretty well.

After oil changes, however, it will drop 2 quarts after the first flight.  Meaning I fill to 8, fly for a few hours, and it will drop to 6.  Let it sit, it will settle a little under 7.  I plan to add another quart before the next flight at that point, or pretty soon thereafter.  The engine burns a quart maybe every 6-7 hours.

I don't know where the extra oil goes after the oil change.  Probably the filter and its lines?  But since you noticed this after an oil change, I thought I'd share.  I would be curious if you top it up and fly it for an hour if the problem repeats again.  

[V1VRV2]

UPDATE…. I’ve had the engine looked at by 3 mechanics. 2 compression/leak down checks. No one can find anything wrong. To note…. I have been still flying the plane and the oil loss is down to 1 quart every 4 hours instead of 1 quartevery hour. Compressions were 60 - 70. Master office was 45. So not brand new engine compressions but more than acceptable. Brian Kendrick is doing my annual so we will get to the bottom of it in October. My guess is a valve guide. Very strange! Thanks for everyone’s input. I will update after the annual.

[StevenL757]

You’re in the right place for that annual.  You’ll also meet Garrett when you take your plane down there.  Brian is training Garrett in all-things-Mooney-Ovation and Acclaim, and he’s been a valuable addition to the shop.  He’s careful, attentive, methodical, and has an excellent attitude, so you’ll have a second pair of hands to work with you as needed.

[V1VRV2]

OK! Number 3 cylinder compression was 60. Ther rest were in the 70’s. The leakdown showed air pressurizing the crankcase from #3 blowing oil out the breather. Replacing #3 cylinder with new including piston, rings etc. 

[Pinecone]

Did you try a ring flush?

[V1VRV2]

Well beyond ring flush. Pulled the cylinder and found 1 and 2 compression rings were considerably worn, oil control ring was frozen. Piston had scoring. Cylinder was scored and glazed. Exhaust valve seal was leaking oil. #3 cylinder had the hottest CHT in cruise and 2nd highest EGT. I’ll post pics of the carnage. All other cylinder compressions were in the 70’s. #3 was 60. Master orifice was 45. So the compression was still well within limits. No oil contamination on the spark plugs in cylinder #3. It was good to get to the bottom of this. Takeaway… always be observant and be vigilant of trending data. I think I’m going to switch the injector from the coldest cylinder to the # 3 which was the hottest.

[LANCECASPER]

22 minutes ago, V1VRV2 said:

Well beyond ring flush. Pulled the cylinder and found 1 and 2 compression rings were considerably worn, oil control ring was frozen. Piston had scoring. Cylinder was scored and glazed. Exhaust valve seal was leaking oil. #3 cylinder had the hottest CHT in cruise and 2nd highest EGT. I’ll post pics of the carnage. All other cylinder compressions were in the 70’s. #3 was 60. Master orifice was 45. So the compression was still well within limits. No oil contamination on the spark plugs in cylinder #3. It was good to get to the bottom of this. Takeaway… always be observant and be vigilant of trending data. I think I’m going to switch the injector from the coldest cylinder to the # 3 which was the hottest.

I would wait until you get the new cylinder on and run it. If you try more than one thing at a time it's harder to troubleshoot.