Should I buy a (this) Mooney?

[mpb]

27 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

This,

       The Mooney will burn less fuel, but will cost you more, start looking at insurence costs to start with, if you don’t care for the speed then it’s not worth changing.

People will argue but I think the Warrior is more comfortable, and you have worked the bugs out of it, the Mooney you haven’t.

Mooney is more complex, and complexity cost more.

What the Mooney brings that the Warrior doesn’t is speed and efficiency, but the Warrior is much simpler, easier to maintain and less expensive to own.

So as your not lusting after the faster cruise, I don’t think you really want a Mooney, I think you would miss the Warrior

Great comments everyone - great group - thanks folks!

You pretty much hit the nail on the head as I'm not sure 30 minutes on my very typical mission really justifies the change. Lots of good comments in the thread but the earlier one suggesting that a J may make it a more clear cut decision is very relevant. Of course in this market a good J represents a significant step up in the game financially. 

 

[Utah20Gflyer]

When I was looking for planes I considered both PA 28 fixed gear and the Arrow.  I ended up with a G model Mooney.  I have a lot of PA 28 time so I have a good feel for their differences.  

I'm very glad I bought a Mooney, but whether it is worth it for you is going to be a specific to your objectives and preferences.  

[T. Peterson]

On 1/18/2023 at 4:05 PM, mpb said:

So here's the story,

I started flying about 20 years ago - bought a Piper Warrior soon after getting my PPL, got my instrument rating and almost 2000 hours later here I sit. Don't ask me how but I've managed to accumulate 2000 hours flying my Warrior, almost all of it cross country with a significant amount of night and IFR. I've got a really nice Warrior - WAAS GPS, modern autopilot, AV30, nice paint and interior, etc - really do not have to do anything with it but fly it. I've literally flown it everywhere East of the Rockies and it's been a blast.

Here's the issue, I'm 55 and would like to double my flying time before I hang up the headset. However,  I wonder if I'm doing myself a favor accumulating all this time in a noncomplex airplane? I've found a mid 70's M20C that intrigues me and I think I could actually buy it for less than my Warrior is worth - the equipment is pretty similar so although the plane is different the "accessories" are pretty much the same. I'm fortunate that much of my flying (70%+) is the same trip of exactly 311 nautical miles which over many years of doing I find I do in exactly 2 hours and 45 minutes so I pretty well understand my mission and the Warrior has done it very well across multiple seasons and years.

So to start with here's the "other" plane - I suspect some of you are going to know the plane and its former owner. Seems like a really cool dude who has left us - how do I know?  Google the tail number and you'll find his obituary - the plane is mentioned in his obituary - anyone who mentions a plane in there obituary has probably taken pretty good care of it. The airframe hours are a little high - but I like airplanes that have been used - I think it's worth around 80K  - what do you think about the airplane and price?

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/219227951/1975-mooney-m20c-ranger-piston-single-aircraft

So now let's talk mission - simply, am I getting that much more with the M20C than the Warrior for my mission? I think the M20C will do the 311 mile trip about 30 minutes faster than my Warrior - while that's an hour each round trip I view that as negligible - do you agree with the time difference. Moreover, how much more expense am I signing up for in terms of maintenance and insurance?

Lastly, what about all the noncomplex time - am I just suffering a pilot inferiority complex -what say you? Final note, I am a strong believer in known versus unknown commodities - thus my dissonance with this situation.

Have at it and thanks in advance folks!

 

 

 

 

Any chance your mission would expand if you had a Mooney? If the Warrior is actually limiting the mission then that is a huge factor. Or you may just want to advance to a quicker more complex airplane. That is a valid consideration as well.

I don’t think cutting 30 minutes each way is insignificant, especially if you would like to find a restroom and you are still 30 minutes out!

[Smiles201]

I had a Cherokee 180 before my Mooney 201. Very different experiences  Mooney more comfortable to sit in. Legs straight out not bent. Piper better view, more glass. Mooney is real plane! Retractable gear, controllable prop, good autopilot, much faster. Piper is friendlier, simple, more enjoyable in a way. I was getting a little bored with it. Mooney is more masculine feel, you are encased in the plane. Piper you are more aware of the sky. Mooney heavier, better in turbulence, big speed difference for longer trips, which I did often. Plus the cool factor of seeing bigger numbers, especially with good tail wind.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Smiles201

[Pinecone]

I always think back to the one trip in my friend's Cherokee 180.  We were PA to ATL area.   He was under the hood and I was safety pilot/CFII in the right seat.

I was watching the trucks on I-81 pass us and drive off into the distance.

That doesn't happen in a Mooney.    

 

[A64Pilot]

When I was working at the Army’s Test Activity I borrowed a friends PA-28-150 to fly to Savannah. I didn’t want to run it hard and so it was a 90 kt airplane, drove me nuts, took forever to get anywhere, the helicopter I flew cruised comfortably at 120 kts for Gods sake. I just couldn’t handle how slow it was.

Other than that it was a fine little airplane, a Warrior though I believe is a much more Modern airplane without the Hersey bar wing, a good bit faster, and if someone is comfortable with it and the speed is fine, with good paint and interior, well IFR equipped and with a modern autopilot, heck that’s better than most J’s, plus no gear to spend money on, no constant speed prop and prop governor it’s cheaper to maintain, then as a mechanic I can tell you that a Piper is just so much easier to work on, a Mooney is a pilot’s airplane, not a mechanics. A Mooney at times reminds me of working on a watch, little hands would be a plus.

Don’t get me wrong I love my Mooney, but as most will admit after a beer or two it took considerable time and money to get theirs where they wanted it after they bought it, and it’s not cheap to own, insurence alone can be expensive. I bet a fixed gear Piper would cost half or less to insure, and half or less to maintain, other than the engine it  pretty much has no moving parts  

If your looking to buy, try to find an airplane that someone is selling because they want to upgrade to something bigger and faster, more comfortable etc., not from someone who’s getting out of flying for whatever reason. The one quitting flying is more likely to have been infrequently flown and more likely to have been sort of neglected maintenance wise

[PT20J]

I've got a lot of time in PA28s and M20Js. I always flight planned the Warrior at 110 kts, the Archer at 120, the Arrow at 140 and the M20J at 150. The Piper is a simpler design and easier to work on. I find the comfort about the same. The Piper has a bigger door compared to the Mooney and many find it easier to climb into and out of -- especially the back seats since it sits level whereas the Mooney sits about 5 degrees nose up. The visibility out of the Piper is much better which is especially noticeable in the traffic pattern. The Pipers have a parallel valve carbureted engine which is highly regarded. Lack of retractable landing gear and the fixed pitch prop mean lower maintenance costs for the Piper. And the fixed gear is going to have an insurance benefit. My biggest gripe with the Piper is that stupid air cylinder seat adjustment mechanism: hit it by mistake when seated and you take an elevator ride to the basement and it's really hard to get your weight off of it to raise it back up. Must have been designed by a new grad engineer.

So, the Mooney is more airplane and you will pay for that in increased maintenance, inspection and insurance costs. Buy one if you really want/need it. But I always remember what a friend told me when he was complaining about the cost of maintaining his Baron. I asked him why he bought it. He thought for a moment and then replied concisely: "Ego."

Skip

Edit: A couple of other things. The Cherokees have a very gentle stall compared to the Mooney and the longer oleo struts make for consistently gentle touchdowns compared to the stiff, short gear on the Mooney. And  compared to the Cherokee the Mooney is pretty heavy on the controls and has a lower roll rate. The Mooney flaps are more effective than the Cherokee at reducing stall speed but the Mooney is very sensitive to landing speed -- a few extra knots is hundreds of feet of float. A lot is made of the Mooney laminar flow wing, but the Cherokee has a laminar flow wing also. The Mooney is purpose-built for efficient transportation and it excels at that.