Advice on pre-buy misses

[JimB]

I recently had a customer drop a seat on his wing (not a Mooney) and make a good sized 1/2 " hole/dent in the wing skin. I was arranging for a sheet metal guy to do a permanent flush repair when he found someone to drill out the damage and make the hole a little over 1/2" then installed a metal button plug. They referenced AC 43.13-1B for the "repair".....

[MMsuper21]

On a related note I don't think a Mooney is a good first plane to own. Everybody and they grandmother knows how to work on Cessna's, what to look out for and and how to fix them, hence IA's are more likely to catch issues during pre-buy.

Over the past 2 years, not by choice but thanks to Mooneyspace, I know the more about vintage Mooney's on my field (Which is sad, by no means am I an expert). I show up at my IA's point out the issue, show him the manuals (SB, or reference docs etc), he supervises my work. Again lucked out with my IA's.

This is just the beginning...either you have deep pockets and time or start learning. I purchased a perfectly good plane and things still broke shortly after.

What I am trying to communicate is this all part of the experience, embrace it, learn from it and you will be much better equipped for your next plane. 

[iamit]

Finally - some pictures (sorry - was away from the airport for a week).

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, JimB said:

I recently had a customer drop a seat on his wing (not a Mooney) and make a good sized 1/2 " hole/dent in the wing skin. I was arranging for a sheet metal guy to do a permanent flush repair when he found someone to drill out the damage and make the hole a little over 1/2" then installed a metal button plug. They referenced AC 43.13-1B for the "repair".....

That's a pretty loose interpretation of "plug patch". 

[redbaron1982]

1 hour ago, iamit said:

Finally - some pictures (sorry - was away from the airport for a week).

 

I don't know if I should be worried or not, but in the flight school where I did my private and instrument rating almost all aircraft have those kinds of "dents" in the control surfaces. And they keep flying like that, not even repaired.

[EricJ]

52 minutes ago, iamit said:

Finally - some pictures (sorry - was away from the airport for a week).

 

Those tank leaks don't look any worse than most which can be patched, but it's hard to tell from a few pics.   As previously mentioned, the maintenance manual shows how big a leak has to be before repair is required before flight, and it's pretty generous.    It requires only external inspection.

I'd send those pics of the ailerons around for second or third or Nth opinions.    I think the only real issue is the crack, and I can't find any restriction on control surface repairs in the M20J manual, which mostly references AC 43.13 for methods, so I suspect it is similar for the M20F.   I think the notion that control surfaces can't be repaired comes from some modern maintenance manuals which restrict it for particular airplanes, but I don't know of any such restriction for vintage Mooneys.   It seems like many airplanes fly with that type of crack, too, so other relevant maintainer opinions may be worthwhile.

[jaylw314]

Just to echo that those look pretty minor, but my opinion doesn't count for much.

Am I remembering correctly there was a comment in the MM about leaks into the forward wing space having less leeway since that could be a safety issue?

[iamit]

Just to echo that those look pretty minor, but my opinion doesn't count for much.
Am I remembering correctly there was a comment in the MM about leaks into the forward wing space having less leeway since that could be a safety issue?

Precisely - it’s the ones that are in confined spaces that have zero tolerance.


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[bcg]

20 hours ago, MMsuper21 said:

On a related note I don't think a Mooney is a good first plane to own. Everybody and they grandmother knows how to work on Cessna's, what to look out for and and how to fix them, hence IA's are more likely to catch issues during pre-buy.

Over the past 2 years, not by choice but thanks to Mooneyspace, I know the more about vintage Mooney's on my field (Which is sad, by no means am I an expert). I show up at my IA's point out the issue, show him the manuals (SB, or reference docs etc), he supervises my work. Again lucked out with my IA's.

This is just the beginning...either you have deep pockets and time or start learning. I purchased a perfectly good plane and things still broke shortly after.

What I am trying to communicate is this all part of the experience, embrace it, learn from it and you will be much better equipped for your next plane. 

As a guy who bough a Mooney for his first plane, I both agree and disagree with this.  The place that did my PPI (I actually had them do an anuual) was not an MSC and much more experienced with Cirrus, he missed some stuff that really should have been caught.  Things like completely broken welds on a cowling support and missing exhaust bracket fasteners.  Since then, I've based the plane at KERV, home of the Mooney factory, and I'm on a tiedown right in front of Dugosh.  I can't say enough good things about those guys.  They have allowed me to do my own work under supervision and pointed out the stuff that was missed during the PPI while we were fixing other things (so far, replacing the starter, installing an alternator after a generator failure, a new ignition switch, cleaning the plugs and replacing a damaged plug wire and an oil change).  I've enjoyed the work and learned a lot about the plane in the process.

In retrospect I would say what I really think is that if a Mooney is going to be your first plane, you should be patient enough to get your PPI done at a trusted MSC that has the knowledge and experience to know exactly what needs to be looked for.  You want someone that KNOWS what is a deal killer, what is just going to be expensive but fixable and what can really be safely ignored as just a cosmetic blemish.  I've learned that Mooney experience is a must for this.