Smoke protection

[bnicolette]

Hi all,

In light of the recent thread "smoke in the cockpit" and the recent Cherokee 180 crash in Boston it got me to thinking why don't I have any smoke protection in my airplane?  In the corporate aviation world we always have smoke goggles and onboard oxygen at the ready and within reach of each crewmember.  Why in the world I haven't taken this possibility (smoke/fire in the cockpit) into consideration in my own airplane, I have no idea.  What products are you guys using in your cockpit?  I need to find something useful and get it in place asap.

I came across this one:

http://www.amazon.com/ASE30-Safe-Escape-Fire-Smoke/dp/B000RA783K

Years ago, I used to carry the EvacU8 in my luggage just incase I needed it in a hotel and happened to be on a high floor:

http://www.smokesign.com/evsmokhood.html

 

 

 

[pjsny78]

I have a side window and a door if i am able to get it open. i do not know of any products for GA for this issue.

[jwilkins]

I heard the EvacU8 units were recalled; the one you provided a link for should work, and, for about the same price, there is a 60 minute version.

There are so many possible emergencies that we could not practically prepare for all of them, but I may buy one of these.

I wonder if there is a difference in smoke accumulation between a pressurized (sealed) cabin and our cabins for which we can shut off the air vents and open the pilot's window...

This may be a good addition to my Halon fire extinguiser, 403 PLB, handheld Nav Com, and pulse oximeter.

I may never use this stuff but it is nice ot know it is available.

 

[kerry]

I carry a snorkel under my seat.  I thought if I get smoke in the cockpit I could have access to fresh air out the window.  I don't know if it would work but it makes me feel better.

[Hank]

Opening the little window or cracking the door will help if smoke in the cockpit is coming from "in the cockpit" sources, i.e., something electrical. If it's from under the cowl like the recent Piper trouble, bringing in outside air will do you no good at all. My Owner's Manual says in its entirety, "In case of engine fire, turn cabin heater off."

I also plan to shut off the fuel supply, pitch for best glide [105 mph with the prop spinning], pull the prop all the way back, and look for someplace to land 5 minutes ago . . . With any luck, the fire will self-extinguish with fuel cut off and I won't need an emergency, red-line descent. Either way, clear cabin to land would be nice--it's hard to hit a runway when the cabin is full of smoke.

[bnicolette]

Kerry: I really like the snorkel idea.  If you add some smoke goggles to the mix it sounds like you have a great plan!!

Patrick: I'm not sure that opening the little window would do it in a lot of situations.  Possibly in conjunction with the door it might help but really if there is any kind of fire, more oxygen is just going to make things worse, isn't it?

Jim: I am with you that we will likely never use the emergency equipment, but these things take up almost no room, so why not?  

In a pressurized cabin we have a source of incoming air and also have outflow valves, so we can send clean air in and suck it/blow it through the cabin and out.  But yet any smoke in the airplane is never pretty and is always an emergency situation that requires a land as soon as POSSIBLE situation.

I have heard horror stories of smoke in the cockpit even from the company I used to fly for.  Apparently their TCAS unit (which was built into the VSI) shorted out and even after turning off all the electical sources, it was billowing an unbelieveable amount smoke into the cockpit to the extent that they couldn't see and this was in a Falcon 900 which is a sizeable cockpit area with a lot of cabin behind it.  The made an emergency evacuation and left the airplane right on the taxiway at PBI as it continued to billow smoke even when they were out of the airplane.  Those kinds of stories are the ones I think about when folks mention just opening a window as I don't think this would be survivable in the air without some sort of protection.  I know we can't plan on everything that can possibly happen, but it would be nice to make just about anything survivable.  Just my opinion and I guess I'm thinking out loud more than anything.  Thanks guys for the responses.

I can't help but remember the folks jumping out of the World Trade Center becuase of heat and burning lungs.  Smoke and fire just not good in our little confined area.

[jetdriven]

Those hood PBE's would work good.  But you still couldn't see the instruments.

[AndyFromCB]

Always in my flight bag

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/paratCsmokehood.php

The previous owner of my bird had a little halon fire supression system installed that has lines going forward to the firewall and to the tail cone over the batteries. Not exactly approved, so he asked me if I wanted it removed during prebuy/annual. I said yes and winked ;-) 

[Hank]

There's two things you need in a smoky cockpit:  air to breathe, and a way to see the panel, and eventually see outside to land. Stopping the fire is obviously of critical importance, but as relayed above, turning everything off may not stop the smoke and opening windows and doors may not clear the air but rather draw in more smoke from up front vs. under the panel.

Simple goggles and one of the little O2 bottles with a built-in mask should suffice, even if it's a little 10-minute bottle; personally, if I'm on fire I won't be paying much attention to little things like the risks entailed if the airplane ever flies again. Who was the sage that stated "operational limits only apply if you intend to use the aircraft again"?

Balance that against the additional fire risk from having bottled oxygen, and don't forget accidental puncture risk by passengers/shifting luggage. Knocking the valve off is often much easier than penetrating the canister and just as bad.

Lots of thinking to do here, as well as risk mitigation. "Pilot in Command" somehow conveys greater responsibility than just cranking up the car, although the latter seems to affect more people every day, and is apparently taken far too lightly by many drivers.

[Piloto]

On a private jet flying at over 30,000 feet you do not have the option of opening a window or a door to vent out the smoke thus the need for a smoke mask. On a piston plane as soon you crack open the door the smoke gets vented out. Just try it by smoking and you will see how quickly the smoke gets out.

 

José

[jetdriven]

The problem with that is thedraft intensifies the fire.  It doesn't solve anything as the UPS 747-400 crash in Dubai shows. 

 

[bnicolette]

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/15/coast-guard-searching-for-missing-plane-over-cape-cod-bay/

[231flyer]

Years ago I lost my vaccum pump over Paducah KY.  The cockpit got smoky in a hurry as fumes from the air/oil seperator streamed into the cabin through the AI outlet (reverse flow as I learned from the mechanic).  Once I determined the engine was fine and I had lost the vac, I pull back the throttle to 120 Knots and opened all the cabin vents and the pilot window.  The cabin cleared out quickly and the landing at Paducah was uneventful although the pucker factor was definitely high. I think opening all the air nozzles and pulling the cabin vent open was key to clearing the cabin in that case.