DVFR flight plans

[JimB]

So I have been researching flying over to the Bahamas and for the most part it seems pretty straight forward. However, I have a question on filing and activating a DVFR flight plan. Can you file and activate your DVFR flight plan via Leidos (https://www.1800wxbrief.com/). Normally I file online and then get a text to activate and another one to close. Does that work for a Defense VFR flight plan either departing Florida or returning? I realize I still need to contact FSS for a discreet squawk code and add to the remarks ADCUS (advise customs) but just wondered if you can file/activate electronically or if you have to call? Thanks

[buddy]

When I fly VFR to the Bahamas I file using ForeFlight and always use flight following (therefore you have your transponder code). I open and close my flight plan in the air with FSS. Don’t forget eAPIS and get your customs decal. I do the same for the return trip. The last I heard adding ADCUS in the remarks doesn’t work, I always call customs at KFPR before I leave the Bahamas and let them know what time I’ll be landing. Fort Pierce, Treasure Coast International is the “airport of entry” that I’ve been using. The phone # for customs is 772-461-1733 10:00am-6:00pm and I believe you can leave them a voicemail.

[JimB]

Thanks Buddy. I also plan on staging out of Fort Pierce. I have my customs sticker, my eAPIS account all set up and have heard the same on putting ADCUS in the remarks not working so I do plan to call customs. Are you calling MIA approach for flight following and MIA FSS for flight plan opening? What frequencies are you using in and out of KFPR? I have been ready a bunch of guides and there are a multitude of freqs in that area depending on where you are departing or arriving from. 

[kortopates]

DVFR flight plans no longer exist as we made the change to ICAO flights plans a few years ago, and this would be an international ICAO flight plan.  Additionally, ADCUS became obsolete along with the old flight plans - so be sure to call your CBP folks at your destination in advance when you return. You can file your ICAO flight plans with your favorite E6B app (e.g., Foreflight, Garmin Pilot), but since there are a few required fields to populate, till you have the experience, I'd recommend you do it through Leidos or read up in AIM Appendix 4 International Flight Plans to learn all about it

Fort Pierce tower will give you the correct frequency to use for approach. One crazy thing about flying internationally in the Bahamas is that except for in the vicinity of Nassau you're actually always talking to Miami Center as if you never left home!  

[Matt Ward]

FWIW I just flew from Denver to Mexico and filed via ForeFlight. It required me to select DVFR as the type of flight plan for the return trip. I did and all was well. 

[4cornerflyer]

I would strongly suggest that for an international flight--especially if you are not experienced at it--that you make the phone call to FSS for a briefing and to file the flight plan, and activate with them by radio. 

The FSS can give you a transponder code for the ADIZ too. 

Jon

[kortopates]

6 hours ago, Matt Ward said:

FWIW I just flew from Denver to Mexico and filed via ForeFlight. It required me to select DVFR as the type of flight plan for the return trip. I did and all was well. 

Interesting as I am not a Foreflight user so can't comment on that directly. But thanks for sharing! 

But if you log onto Leidos FSS 1800WXBrief and go to the file a flight page you'll see you'll see the following notice:

Notice: Per FAA Guidance, all civilian flight plans
must be filed as ICAO flight plans.

Also if you look in the AIM that I references earlier you'll see the same thing.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by kortopates

[JimB]

Thanks everyone for all the great information! Really appreciated! I am sure when I get to KFPR and talk with the folks at the FBO, I can get all my answers but really wanted to be informed before I go. As far as the flight plan filing, I know that the US has adopted the ICAO form but I really thought you still had to file a DVFR (of IFR) flight plan when going back and forth across the ADIZ but I guess I am mistaken. Good info. I will say it is still an option on the ICAO form though under flight type. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by JimB

[kortopates]

6 hours ago, JimB said:

Thanks everyone for all the great information! Really appreciated! I am sure when I get to KFPR and talk with the folks at the FBO, I can get all my answers but really wanted to be informed before I go. As far as the flight plan filing, I know that the US has adopted the ICAO form but I really thought you still had to file a DVFR (of IFR) flight plan when going back and forth across the ADIZ but I guess I am mistaken. Good info. I will say it is still an option on the ICAO form though under flight type. 

Yes, that's absolutely correct on the flight type. The second thing is we have to denote the time and place of ADIZ penetration in the remarks/field 18 of the ICAO form.

Sorry but we used be able to specify DVFR as the Flight Rules rather than VFR or IFR on the Domestic flight plan and we called them DVFR flight plans, so reading DVFR I responded the way I did - sorry if I misunderstood you.  But yes, as you point out there is a DVFR on Flight Type so I shouldn't have said its DVFR is entirely gone (only thinking of DVFR flight plans) but said its now used under flight type, replacing GA,  just as you show.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by kortopates

[smwash02]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

Yes, that's absolutely correct on the flight type. The second thing is we have to denote the time and place of ADIZ penetration in the remarks/field 18 of the ICAO form.

@kortopates Are you putting a time or an EET? I noticed SENEAM writes it like "EET/ZHU 0110" to denote crossing ADIZ at ZHU (Houston Center) in an hour ten and I started doing similar.

[kortopates]

19 hours ago, smwash02 said:

@kortopates Are you putting a time or an EET? I noticed SENEAM writes it like "EET/ZHU 0110" to denote crossing ADIZ at ZHU (Houston Center) in an hour ten and I started doing similar.

Very interesting and seem like a very good idea. But I have only just specified Zulu time. But I assume you refer to the flight plan filed with Mexico too. Maybe its improved, but early on I learned its wasn't always reliable to count on Mexico to transmit the departure flight plan to the US and would call up FSS northbound to hear they couldn't find it. So now I always file my own inbound ICAO flight plan with the FSS to ensure they get it and these days its much easier with an ipad. They probably are more reliable these days.

[smwash02]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Very interesting and seem like a very good idea. But I have only just specified Zulu time. But I assume you refer to the flight plan filed with Mexico too. Maybe its improved, but early on I learned its wasn't always reliable to count on Mexico to transmit the departure flight plan to the US and would call up FSS northbound to hear they couldn't find it. So now I always file my own inbound ICAO flight plan with the FSS to ensure they get it and these days its much easier with an ipad. They probably are more reliable these days.

Correct, SENEAM (for me) usually requires it.

I've always flown on IFR plans and it's been smooth, but I read that with VFR you needed to file your own on the US side. If I were flying VFR I'd file one just to be safe.

The system is improving for sure though, when I turned in my flight plan in January within about 15 minutes I got a notification from FlightAware about the plan being filed.

[kortopates]

12 minutes ago, smwash02 said:

Correct, SENEAM (for me) usually requires it.

I've always flown on IFR plans and it's been smooth, but I read that with VFR you needed to file your own on the US side. If I were flying VFR I'd file one just to be safe.

The system is improving for sure though, when I turned in my flight plan in January within about 15 minutes I got a notification from FlightAware about the plan being filed.

Me too on the IFR but occasionally my Baja destination is only doable via VFR like MMSF and that's really virtually the only airport I return from Mexico VFR.  Also big improvement on AdsB tracking too, a couple years ago Flightware tracked us all through Mexico and south to CENAM - only in Guatemala did get less than 100%.  Wouldn't have believed I'd see that anytime so soon.

[ss1007]

Sorry for the late and long post. I’ve flown to the Bahamas a dozen times or so over the last 10 years. I’ve always filed IFR. I’m heading there again in a few days and decided I’d like to go on a VFR flight plan. 
I’m reading posts on many websites and became very confused/frustrated with the terminology. So I called Leidos Flight Service (800wxbrief) and asked them to clarify.
Here’s what they said:

1) an international flight plan is simply the icao format (as opposed to the FAA domestic format we used to use years ago). It is, for our typical GA purposes, simply a flight plan.
    - So I personally wish we could erase all the older web pages that specify “international”. 

2) Only a VFR flight plan is needed. A DVFR flight plan’s purpose is to track aircraft operating within the ADIZ without landing at an airport outside the US. This is contrary to what the AOPA website indicates (the briefer said that website is wrong). The briefer was clear and stated it a number of times. And I called again and asked another briefer. 
    - I know this point will be contentious but please don’t shoot the messenger. If you’ve only filed DVFR, you probably have not seen a problem.  The FSS folks are allowing it, but, according to them, DVFR is incorrect.  
— But if you’ve filed VFR (recently, not 10 years ago) and had trouble, please do reply to this. 

3) Filing VFR online at 1800wxbrief.com will provide a beacon code (same as a squawk code for those who might wonder) when filing the day of your departure. This code is enough to cross the ADIZ.  This works whether you file from the Bahamas to the US or the US to the Bahamas.

4) When filing VFR to/from the Bahamas, specifying ADIZ entry points and times is not needed. I read articles indicating that I should use EET/ or DVFR/ in line 18 of the flight plan. That is unnecessary according to the briefer. The system figures the crossing time for you. 
    - I was focused on 1800wxbrief.com functionality, so I didn’t ask if that was figured out by the 1800wxbrief website functionality or is independent of planning tool (Foreflight, etc). 
    - As a note, the briefer clarified that EET (“estimated elapsed time” to a fix) in line 18 is needed when crossing an international FIR. The Bahamas are in the Miami FIR, so it simply doesn’t apply. However, flying VFR to the Dominican Republican, EET would be required for each FIR crossing (e.g. when you cross Miami FIR, Haiti FIR, etc).

At any rate, that is what I learned from the briefer.
Unless someone tells me that they know for a fact that F18s will come after me or I will get fined 5K (or both… or something else nefarious), I will try filing VFR (not DVFR) to/from the Bahamas.
It will be a departure for me from the comfort of IFR, but I am interested in how easy this might be with getting a code before departure, no stress trying to reach super busy Miami Center on 134.2 for my IFR clearance out of Treasure Cay, etc. 

[201Steve]

I’ve always filed IFR but will likely try VFR next time if conditions prevail. Coming from the North, they want to push you off shore way earlier than I prefer. I also thought about filing two ifr flight plans, one to West Palm and one from west Palm to… cancel and reopen when I get where I want to be. really throw em for a loop. Probably piss them off. But I have pleaded several times and they will not send you much passed Vero Beach before they jet you off. 
 

wouldn’t it be nice if you could just accompany a VFR flight plan with flight following, just like IFR? 
 

as far as the F-15’s go, I may or may not have crossed the ADIZ coming home with only a FF code, and in this make believe scenario, no F-15’s showed up. It may or may not have been an extremely rushed and hectic departure to get off the ground with limited internet/phone access.