About Gear Up Landings

[RoundTwo]

11 minutes ago, JohnZ said:

I just emailed a suggestion to ForeFlight: 

"ForeFlight automatically makes a 500' AGL callout when coming in for landing. Adding an option for pilots of complex/retractable gear airplanes that says "500, Check Gear" would, in my opinion, be an audible alert that a lot of RG pilots would like to have."

This would be an easily implemented software update that I, for one, would definitely turn on.

It’s great that they’re open like they are for accepting input. Put that in the backlog and then move it into code. Nice.

R2

[RoundTwo]

10 hours ago, Lance Link said:

There are a few devices that make a woman yell in your ear. Just get one.

I’ve got Wife 1.0. :-)

R2

[GeeBee]

47 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

I see you’re in Cumming. I’m between Canton and Cartersville. We should meet up sometime. 

That would be great! Send me a PM

[RoundTwo]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

6) Note that it is pretty clearly mentioned above… GUs are costly…. But, if you get so focussed on them… you might miss something more important at the same time…

Sitting here on the couch jumping through hoops to get special issuance medical approval, the focus on GU is easy to see. Sux to be grounded. As soon as this hurdle is cleared, I’ll be free to get back in the left seat and begin to regain the muscle memory I had 30 years ago.

So why the GU fixation?

1) I’m an engineer, Aerospace at that.

2) I’m a software developer/designer/architect. 

3) I’m human and that means things don’t always go as planned, regardless of how many times I’ve done it the right way. 

When you put all of this together and hear someone answer a question about GU landings and their response is “I forgot to put the gear down.”, that’s an situation that can be improved. Notice that I didn’t say SOLVED. 
I’ve never personally spoken to anyone who forgot to put the gear down, but it’s logical to believe they would PROBABLY say a better alert mechanism would MOST LIKELY have prevented the mishap. Please take special note that I have NEVER stated that improved alerts would SOLVE, ELIMINATE, or PREVENT ALL GU landings. I strongly believe improved and integrated alerts would IMPROVE the situation.

Ok, this horse is dead enough.

R2

[carusoam]

That horse is very dead…

The landing height sensor is getting good reviews…

The AOAi is getting good reviews…

And there is a fair amount of discussions regarding Class III - SI(s) around here as well…

… and Basic Med.

 

Pick your battles wisely… there aren’t enough hours in the day to fight them all… 

 

So…. Engineer, software experience… How are you are you with writing STCs?

We have a few around here…

Best regards,

-a-

[David Lloyd]

1 hour ago, RoundTwo said:

That’s a great system that seems pretty bulletproof. 
R2

Almost any system is good if you stick with it.  It's the deviations that get people in trouble.

[RoundTwo]

Thank you to whomever you are. I’ve been called “one of a kind” before. Now I have “rare” to add to the list.  Finally found the smileys too. 

R2

[RoundTwo]

9 minutes ago, carusoam said:

… and Basic Med.

So…. Engineer, software experience… How are you are you with writing STCs?

We have a few around here…

Best regards,

-a-

Basic Med is a possibility once I get 3rd class again. My previous 3rd class expired long ago.

I was an engine guy with Pratt & Whitney, so no aircraft experience to lend to STC’s. I was one of those ivory tower number crunchers running computer design decks overnight. I was all aero, no structural stuff which would have been much more to my liking.

R2

[Mooney in Oz]

10 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

I strongly believe improved and integrated alerts would IMPROVE the situation.

Probably would. However, IMHO the last line of defence should be the humble checklist. It doesn’t need to be a complicated, long list of items. You can even create your own that you feel are most relevant and leave out the fluff. Most modern navigators have a dedicated section for this. If not, laminated paper is fine. Use it sensibly in that if you are distracted at any stage, either go back to the last item and continue or if you forget which item it was, return to the first item in that particular list. 
 

There is good reason why single pilot and two crew commercial operators and airlines around the world use these. 

[drapo]

If your brain decides to disregard a signal, visual and/or audible, it will:

 

[A64Pilot]

I connected my Garmin 696 to my PS audio panel years ago in my Maule, it did’t stay connected long. You can’t mute it is why, if I could have pushed a button to shut the thing up it would have been OK.

I got way tired of hearing “Terrain, Terrain, Pull up, Pull up” incessantly every time I landed at a grass strip.

Coming in now to land at my grass strip which is in the Database, foreflight knows it’s an airport, even the safe taxi works, but it freaks out on approach with Terrain warnings and the screen displays some kind of terrain alert, I’m sure it has a audio alert too, that I bet you can’t mute, the display you can make it go away, but it comes back almost immediately.

But yes if something would have a “check gear down” I’d like it, especially if you could mute it after you checked gear down.

Edited October 19, 2021 by A64Pilot

[201Mooniac]

12 hours ago, Austintatious said:

I have seen this notion that the mooney will not slow down without the gear down mentioined twice now and it is prompting me to tell this story about a friend.

First off, this is a half truth.  For a normal flight profile, this is largely true as we typically enter the patter out of a descent.

So heres the chain.

1.  Airplane gets a bath

2. Pilot decides to take it around the pattern to blow dry it.  Never gets fast, never gets high.

3. About base turn, pilot recieves a call.  Newfangled avionics/comms put call into av headset.  Pilot takes call only to tell them he will call back when on ground.

4. No gear warning heard on final, aircraft otherwise fully configured.

5. Scraaaaaaaaaaaape.

 

The gear horn was found to be non functional, even though the aircraft was fresh out of annual.  1 year down for repairs.

 

Lesson 1.  while out of a normal flight profile, the mooney is tough to slow down, do not let that instill a false sense of security.  These planes can and do slow down to approach speed sans gear under the right conditions.  This particular mooney was a rocket.

Lesson 2.  Make sure the person doing your annual checks your gear horn function and that the horn is loud Enough to actually hear.

I had a similar experience many years ago when getting checked out in a 231.  I entered the pattern and put the gear down.  On short final the instructor told me to go around.  I climbed back to pattern altitude and reduced power so I never accelerated beyond about 100kts.  Came back around to land and I finally heard the gear horn on final after it was likely going off for awhile unheard by both the instructor and me.  I went around again and then I put the gear down and landed and we debriefed the issue.  I now do my gear down and locked check on each leg of the pattern and at the 500' callout from my GTN.

[Joshua Blackh4t]

As a relatively new mooney pilot (85 hours [in 8 months]), I find that the whole descent/approach is focused on getting the speed down to 105kts at the right point and not needing to pull power too far back (and get the gear warning) or doing an unprofessional climb.

So I don't necessarily see too much problem there. 

BUT the only gear up mooney landing I know of is when the manual bar didn't latch properly, so my final check is grab the bar and try to pull it while looking at the button. 

Also check prop, mix, boost in. Then check gear again. 

My warning is based on throttle position and is honestly way too annoying. However it does work. I would prefer one based off airspeed. Gear would always be down below 90kts and would never try to land at 90. 

I have changed my Vnav to 350ft/min to field height and it seems to work well with straight in approaches. 

 

[Will.iam]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:38 AM, drapo said:

If your brain decides to disregard a signal, visual and/or audible, it will:

 

Knowing the passenger in the back was filming this approach and said nothing, reminds me of an  uncommanded  pitch up prior to rotate that the crew aborted for years ago. The cause was an autopilot that after the test did not disconnect even though the switches switched to off. As they were taxiing to takeoff the autopilot seeing the nose down compared to level flight started trimming nose up. The jumpseater saw the trim wheel moving but thought this was a normal part of the before takeoff checklist. After that our procedures where to tell any jump seater, if you see the trim wheel move at anytime before takeoff, speakup and let the pilot know. I tell my passengers that there should be no beeping noises when we are desending to land, if we hear a beep we must identify it and silence it before we land. Would this have prevented this accident? Don’t know, maybe but it is definitely one more check in the swiss cheese layers of trying to prevent an accident. I also wonder if the solid tone was at a high enough pitch to not be heard as well when you get older as high frequencies are the first to go in older people.