Is it OK to ask about specific N numbers

[RoundTwo]

Knowing there is a chance any plane I look at may be, or may have been, owned by a MS member, is it bad juju to ask for information about said aircraft on the forum?

[RLCarter]

I think if your buying a plane you find out as much as you can about it. Logbooks only tell the story the author wants told. Be aware that some of the answers to questions asked are more opinions than facts

[Mooney Dog]

1 hour ago, RoundTwo said:

Knowing there is a chance any plane I look at may be, or may have been, owned by a MS member, is it bad juju to ask for information about said aircraft on the forum?

The only bad juju with N numbers is hunting people down by the registration attached to the N number. If you just so happen to find someone here that had one of the same airplanes, there's nothing wrong with asking them about the airplane. 

 

Just dont be like the guy who contact my friend by looking up his address and finding his phone number to call and tell him to stop flying over his house and spying on him.... 

[RoundTwo]

10 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

Just dont be like the guy who contact my friend by looking up his address and finding his phone number to call and tell him to stop flying over his house and spying on him.... 

Not a welcome phone call.

[Mooney Dog]

34 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

Not a welcome phone call.

It was a pretty messed up experience, thats for sure. Some people are a bit crazy

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

The only bad juju with N numbers is hunting people down by the registration attached to the N number. If you just so happen to find someone here that had one of the same airplanes, there's nothing wrong with asking them about the airplane. 

 

Just dont be like the guy who contact my friend by looking up his address and finding his phone number to call and tell him to stop flying over his house and spying on him.... 

Just how low was your friend flying that the guy on the ground could read the N number?

Clarence

[midlifeflyer]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Just how low was your friend flying that the guy on the ground could read the N number?

Clarence

The folks who look to complain usually have pretty strong binoculars.

[EricJ]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Just how low was your friend flying that the guy on the ground could read the N number?

Clarence

The miracle of ADS-B.   For a while somebody on the edge of town was having a law firm send nasty letters to anybody who flew "too low" over a vacant area north of town so that the animals didn't get disturbed.   I think "too low" was less than 1500 feet or something like that.    It happened enough that it got mentioned in the AZ Pilots Assoc newsletter that it was safe to ignore it.  I got one once.   It was kind of dumb.   

[kortopates]

In my area, nobody needs binoculars to identify low flying aircraft. Get with the times gentlemen, our Ads-B data is freely available to the public on sites like flightradar24.com All the folks that hate airplanes are well versed in use of Ads-B and will simply look for your track over the neighborhood and send it into the FSDO. Most of the time though the radar track shows the pilot was not in violation 91.119 and were indeed no less than 1000' but that doesn't stop them from sending in noise complaints. Those that are found below 1000' will hear from the FAA.

Its a real problem these days compounded by the ACS requiring students to do ground reference manuevers between 500' and 1000' and the lack of uncongested terrain without practically leaving the state! 

Interestingly, its often the case that almost all of the low flying/noise complaints are all filed by just one individual in a neighborhood.  

Edited October 4, 2021 by kortopates

[jaylw314]

16 minutes ago, kortopates said:

In my area, nobody needs binoculars to identify low flying aircraft. Get with the times gentlemen, our Ads-B data is freely available to the public on sites like flightradar24.com All the folks that hate airplanes are well versed in use of Ads-B and will simply look for your track over the neighborhood and send it into the FSDO. Most of the time though the radar track shows the pilot was not in violation 91.119 and were indeed no less than 1000' but that doesn't stop them from sending in noise complaints. Those that are found below 1000' will hear from the FAA.

Its a real problem these days compounded by the ACS requiring students to do ground reference manuevers between 500' and 1000' and the lack of uncongested terrain without practically leaving the state! 

Interestingly, its often the case that almost all of the low flying/noise complaints are all filed by just one individual in a neighborhood.  

Getting a little OT here, but this was a fun read:

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/dourado-airport-noise-mop-v1.pdf

One person 55 miles from SFO submitted 186 complaints in a month.

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, RoundTwo said:

Knowing there is a chance any plane I look at may be, or may have been, owned by a MS member, is it bad juju to ask for information about said aircraft on the forum?

What sort of information are you looking for? .... performance of the specific plane at the time is was previously owned by a MS member?  Nothing wrong asking peoples' recollection about performance - but expect to get a lot of "fish stories".  It will just be recollections - some tend to grow with time, important details get lost. 

Now if you are asking about a specific plane that is currently for sale which was previously owned by someone on MS, then don't expect to get an answer.  (Things like aspects of condition - that specific plane's condition, flight characteristics or quirks such as oil consumption, corrosion issues, hard landings, tank leaks, hangar rash or other incidences, or occasional quirks, anomalies or intermittent issues with instruments, flight controls, gear, starting, engine operation, etc. ?) 

• If I had previously sold a plane I would never interfere in the current owners attempt to sell that same plane.
• I would never contradict any representation which the current owner is making regarding condition
• I would never put my opinion of past condition (which happens to be the condition it was when I sold it to the current owner) in writing
• And I would certainly never put my opinion of past condition IN WRITING IN PUBLIC ON MS.

Once a sale is closed there is no benefit to the seller to further comment - Only potential liability  You just open yourself up to potential allegations that you did not disclose something or that you mischaracterized something.  And it only comes up when something breaks or deteriorates and a lot of money is involved.

Just my opinion

[RoundTwo]

3 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

What sort of information are you looking for? .... performance of the specific plane at the time is was previously owned by a MS member?  Nothing wrong asking peoples' recollection about performance - but expect to get a lot of "fish stories".  It will just be recollections - some tend to grow with time, important details get lost. 

Now if you are asking about a specific plane that is currently for sale which was previously owned by someone on MS, then don't expect to get an answer.  (Things like aspects of condition - that specific plane's condition, flight characteristics or quirks such as oil consumption, corrosion issues, hard landings, tank leaks, hangar rash or other incidences, or occasional quirks, anomalies or intermittent issues with instruments, flight controls, gear, starting, engine operation, etc. ?) 

• If I had previously sold a plane I would never interfere in the current owners attempt to sell that same plane.
• I would never contradict any representation which the current owner is making regarding condition
• I would never put my opinion of past condition (which happens to be the condition it was when I sold it to the current owner) in writing
• And I would certainly never put my opinion of past condition IN WRITING IN PUBLIC ON MS.

Once a sale is closed there is no benefit to the seller to further comment - Only potential liability  You just open yourself up to potential allegations that you did not disclose something or that you mischaracterized something.  And it only comes up when something breaks or deteriorates and a lot of money is involved.

Just my opinion

Thanks for that and that's what I expected.

[Mooney Dog]

49 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Just how low was your friend flying that the guy on the ground could read the N number?

Clarence

He wasnt. The guy wasnt even in the same state. He looked up an airplane on flight aware that was "over his house" and typed in the wrong N number. Found my friend instead, looked up the addressed, hunted down a phone number, and gave him a few calls. 

[carusoam]

RT,

The general rules of being a fine, upstanding, aviation gentleman, apply…

Most information you are going to get from a tail number is open to the public…

Use a couple of searches, here and Google….

 

If you are new to buying planes…

You get to decide how much you want to tell people what you are doing….

The moment you post a tail number to ask questions about it… anyone that is looking to buy a plane will now know it is available….

There isn’t that much competition in buying planes…

And it isn’t MSers that you need to be afraid of….  The whole world can see MS posts…

 

So… it’s a tough spot to be in… but, it’s better to ask questions and learn some things… then to keep secrets and not learn something important…

Pp thoughts only not a plane sales guy…

Good luck with the hunt!

Go Mooney!

 

Best regards,

-a-

[philip_g]

12 hours ago, Mooney Dog said:

 

Just dont be like the guy who contact my friend by looking up his address and finding his phone number to call and tell him to stop flying over his house and spying on him.... 

 

This happened to me because I made the egregious error of transiting her town on the shoreline and not offshore. Luckily the registration hadn't updated and she called the previous owner. I would have been much less friendly.

[Mooney Dog]

5 minutes ago, philip_g said:

 

This happened to me because I made the egregious error of transiting her town on the shoreline and not offshore. Luckily the registration hadn't updated and she called the previous owner. I would have been much less friendly.

dont you just love people who have nothing better to do than complain about airplanes? 

[philip_g]

1 hour ago, Mooney Dog said:

dont you just love people who have nothing better to do than complain about airplanes? 

It's infuriating.

I'm minding my own business. Doing nothing wrong. Flying along the coast at 1500 AGL and I have to deal with this crazy accusing me if breaking the law. Mind you I was in military base airspace and told to hug the coast because of a drone 

[ZuluZulu]

I know it’s not easy in the moment but let’s all try to think of the bigger picture. If we all act like complete jerks to the public at-large every time they contact us, they’re going to be that much more opposed to GA if not downright motivated to take active roles in opposition to the existence of any airports. Try to be polite and educate if you can! 

[philip_g]

9 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

I know it’s not easy in the moment but let’s all try to think of the bigger picture. If we all act like complete jerks to the public at-large every time they contact us, they’re going to be that much more opposed to GA if not downright motivated to take active roles in opposition to the existence of any airports. Try to be polite and educate if you can! 

There is no reasoning with these people. They have no right to police the sky or harass pilots. Tell them to piss off and call the FAA if they have a problem.

[thinwing]

On 10/4/2021 at 9:34 AM, kortopates said:

In my area, nobody needs binoculars to identify low flying aircraft. Get with the times gentlemen, our Ads-B data is freely available to the public on sites like flightradar24.com All the folks that hate airplanes are well versed in use of Ads-B and will simply look for your track over the neighborhood and send it into the FSDO. Most of the time though the radar track shows the pilot was not in violation 91.119 and were indeed no less than 1000' but that doesn't stop them from sending in noise complaints. Those that are found below 1000' will hear from the FAA.

Its a real problem these days compounded by the ACS requiring students to do ground reference manuevers between 500' and 1000' and the lack of uncongested terrain without practically leaving the state! 

Interestingly, its often the case that almost all of the low flying/noise complaints are all filed by just one individual in a neighborhood.  

Its just not folks with an airplane grudge....taking off from Half Moon Bay airport to the west (prevailing winds require)takes you right over moss beach and a rocky outcropping with nesting birds according to NOAA .So they want you to make a hard left turn out toward cold open ocean to avoid scaring the birds.The problem with that ,is in the event of an engine failure you are going for a swim in 50 degree water,to far out to swim for shore.

[ZuluZulu]

7 hours ago, philip_g said:

There is no reasoning with these people. They have no right to police the sky or harass pilots. Tell them to piss off and call the FAA if they have a problem.

And what I’m saying is to try educating them instead of just telling them to piss off. If I was clueless about aviation and called to complain about something, the pilot immediately telling me to GFY would only reinforce my belief that he’s in the wrong and I’m in the right. Whereas a polite conversation that tells me (1) the FAA establishes rules we all have to follow, and (2) I was following those rules/was doing what I was doing because of safety/etc., might give me reason to stop and think. 

[philip_g]

30 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

And what I’m saying is to try educating them instead of just telling them to piss off. If I was clueless about aviation and called to complain about something, the pilot immediately telling me to GFY would only reinforce my belief that he’s in the wrong and I’m in the right. Whereas a polite conversation that tells me (1) the FAA establishes rules we all have to follow, and (2) I was following those rules/was doing what I was doing because of safety/etc., might give me reason to stop and think.

Like swimming upstream. You're wasting your breath. Tell them to call the FAA and stop harassing you.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by philip_g

[carusoam]

Makes Florida sound like a tough place to live…

Your plane is going to rust out between engine starts…

Now everyone is going to complain about you flying in the traffic pattern….

If you ask a simple question…. Like why are you flying over my head?… you get told to GFY!   

NJ sounds like a luxurious place to be in comparison…

Why are there so many Fly-in communities in FL if everyone that complains only has two brain cells to rub together?

Wouldn’t that motion quickly make three brain cells? Is that miosis or mitosis?

 

Kind of a long way of saying…. There is a right way and there are other ways to handle this situation…  let’s not get dragged into the other ways…

Life is too short… Fly a Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Philip,

Last I checked, this is still an active thread where the OP is hunting down a Mooney to buy…

Lets try to stay positive…

The extra negativity isn’t going to help the one guy that is interested in buying a plane…

Best regards,

-a-

[philip_g]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Philip,

Last I checked, this is still an active thread where the OP is hunting down a Mooney to buy…

Lets try to stay positive…

The extra negativity isn’t going to help the one guy that is interested in buying a plane…

Best regards,

-a-

Rich, considering the source