Garmin GFC500… Setting Up FD For TO

[V1VRV2]

I’d like to know how everyone sets up there FD for departure. I don't have possession of my plane yet fro the avionics shop. Should be tomorrow. Im going off the knowledge I gained from reading the manual.

From what I gathered as far as VNAV you can set the FD up for an IAS climb by pressing the IAS button and dialing in the IAS? If you use the TOGA switch is there a way to set up the command bars for the desired nose up angle or is that set already and unable to be changed?

As far as LNAV… set up heading bug for runway heading and press HDG? Would another option be to set up the GNS530W with the flight plan, press OBS button then dial in the runway heading using the CDI needle using NAV mode and setting the heading bug for the heading given in the clearance then switch to HDG mode after takeoff at 800’ engage autopilot?

Maybe now your as confused as I am. Don’t know how clear I’m being in my description.

 

[donkaye]

54 minutes ago, V1VRV2 said:

I’d like to know how everyone sets up there FD for departure. I don't have possession of my plane yet fro the avionics shop. Should be tomorrow. Im going off the knowledge I gained from reading the manual.

From what I gathered as far as VNAV you can set the FD up for an IAS climb by pressing the IAS button and dialing in the IAS? If you use the TOGA switch is there a way to set up the command bars for the desired nose up angle or is that set already and unable to be changed?

As far as LNAV… set up heading bug for runway heading and press HDG? Would another option be to set up the GNS530W with the flight plan, press OBS button then dial in the runway heading using the CDI needle using NAV mode and setting the heading bug for the heading given in the clearance then switch to HDG mode after takeoff at 800’ engage autopilot?

Maybe now your as confused as I am. Don’t know how clear I’m being in my description.

 

TOGO is preset to 7½° fixed and cannot be changed.  If I were to be going IMC immediately I'd probably use it.  For VFR flight I don't use the FD, since the climb angle I use doesn't match.  The term VNAV is for descent only.  An IAS climb is safer than an V/S climb, but is a little more finicky in pitch, varying a few knots either way.  V/S is pretty much rock solid.  The YD always goes on at 800'AGL.

If I'm on a SID in instrument conditions out of KSJC, I'll use the AP after 800'AGL, but in VFR conditions I just hand fly a departure.

One of the nice things about the GFC 500 is the ability to use its built in GPSS for NAV mode to intercept a course.  That did not work with the emulated GPSS on the KFC 150.

[alexz]

With G3x you can pre-configure default angle for TOGA and change it, not sure if it is desirable, however, I found Garmin configured default 7.5 deg to be quite good. You can use up-down button on control face to change angle as well, I usually do lower it a little at altitude to get higher IAS or switch to VS mode to keep constant vertical speed for climb, obviously turbo-charged airplane.

[Mooney Dog]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:35 PM, donkaye said:

The YD always goes on at 800'AGL.

Oh the things I wish i had. 

 

On 9/6/2021 at 5:41 PM, V1VRV2 said:

I’d like to know how everyone sets up there FD for departure

For light singles with the GFC500, ill bug all my initial up and turn the FD on 50% of the time. I will normally hand fly up to 4 (10 in a jet) and then let the AP take over. Most of the time for take off Im flying a heading so ill be in HDG mode before the magic words "direct destination" never happen and i have to fly my entire flight plan anyways. As far as climbing goes. If i want to get to cruise faster, ill climb as Vy +10 after 1500agl or at vs 5-700fpm. IAS mode for the climb is safer since you're flying an airspeed so you shouldnt stall from going to slow. Where as VS mode for a climb will try and maintain whatever you set it too, even if the airspeed starts to fall. 

 

I would not use the OBS mode during takeoff. It would stop waypoints from sequencing and could possibly give issue on a SID if you werent paying attention. 

[81X]

Especially when taking off in IFR conditions, I’ll dial the heading to runway (or assigned/obstacle, etc.), enable heading mode and use the VS mode at +700, reasonable altitude bugged and FD on.  That way, if I need/want,  it’s just hitting the AP button and then it’s easy to navigate/communicate/etc.  

I’m not a huge fan of the TOGA function for takeoffs, mostly due to less control. 

[Mooney in Oz]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:41 AM, V1VRV2 said:

I’d like to know how everyone sets up there FD for departure.

A FD is your best friend when taking off in IFR conditions or at night. 

[V1VRV2]

Revisiting this topic…

I am setting up my GFC500 flight director for IFR departure by setting the VNAV to IAS mode at 105kts which is VY in the Ovation. On climb out the FD gives me pitch commands to maintain 105 kts. PERFECT! For LNAV mode I am am bugging the runway heading and departing in heading mode. Depending on ATC I’m either getting vectors which allows me to stay in heading mode or I’m proceeding on course in which case I engage NAV mode.

GFC500 has been flawless! About 100hrs of flight time now and I am loving this thing!

[PT20J]

I think that's a very good way to set it up because you don't have to do any mode changes close to the ground. Taking off and climbing into clouds is disorienting due to the accelerations and visual cue changes, and messing around with the GFC 500 at that time is asking for trouble. In this case, all you have to do is engage the autopilot. I assume you are also bugging the cleared altitude so that ALT is armed. 

TOGA works great for missed approaches because it commands a wings level climb and cycles the GTN to the missed approach. But in this case you start from at least 200 AGL. I don't use it for takeoff because in my neck of the woods I will get an immediate vector and sometimes an altitude change as soon as I contact TRACON and I don't want to be fumbling around switching to IAS and HDG modes in addition to changing bugs.

Skip

[midlifeflyer]

My technique. In an airplane with TOGA, my altitude, initial course and heading bug are pre-set. I hit TOGA lined up/on the takeoff roll. After gear and flap retraction, I engage the AP which (depending on the autopilot) captures the TOGA wings level pitch. Tap NAV or HDG as appropriate, then IAS for the climb. 

I do pretty much the same on the missed.
 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by midlifeflyer

[PT20J]

Just don’t forget to climb to 800’ before engaging

[rbp]

 just a reminder: "bugging the runway heading" should be the actual heading on the plate, not the RW number

[midlifeflyer]

14 hours ago, PT20J said:

Just don’t forget to climb to 800’ before engaging

Many APs have a similar limitation.

[LANCECASPER]

18 hours ago, V1VRV2 said:

I am setting up my GFC500 flight director for IFR departure by setting the VNAV to IAS mode at 105kts which is VY in the Ovation.

VNAV is only for descents

[rbp]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:42 AM, LANCECASPER said:

VNAV is only for descents

"setting the VNAV to IAS mode at 105kts"

i think he means "vertical navigation mode" (IAS, VNAV, VS) not "VNAV"

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 1/19/2022 at 11:23 AM, rbp said:

"setting the VNAV to IAS mode at 105kts"

i think he means "vertical navigation mode" (IAS, VNAV, VS) not "VNAV"

 

Yes, I’m sure he does mean that but if he pushes a VNAV button or tries to use a VNAV process of any kind in the climb that’s not gonna work and may lead to a descent. Garmin makes it clear that VNAV only refers to descents. Best to get VNAV or even "vertical navigation" out of the climb/IAS/VS vocabulary.

[rbp]

certainly a good thing you called it out

 

[rbp]

and FWIW with the KFC225, i set the AP and navigation to match the clearance: "climbing runway heading (set BUG) to 2,000ft (set ALT ) to intercept V69 (set OBS and NAV1 (identify) or GPS..." and set the vertical speed select for Vy (800fpm). upon departure, i rotate to 5 degrees which gives me about Vx (85), positive rate, flaps up, gear up, at 800ft, hit AP. then I can adjust the VS to hit Vy (105) or cruise climb (120), and NAV (arm) which will intercept the airway course.  @ 1000' boost pump off and 34"/2400. I don't contact departure until after all this is done.

 

[V1VRV2]

Yes… vertical nav mode. Sorry for the confusion! 

[N231BN]

I disagree with the use of IAS mode for IFR takeoffs. The TO in TOGA stands for takeoff, I wouldn't want an airspeed issue messing with my FD while entering IMC close to the ground.

Initial climb at positive pitch attitude with reference to airspeed of course. Once at a safe IFR altitude you can then transition to IAS or VS for enroute climb.

I am interested to hear other's thoughts on this.

[V1VRV2]

I disagree with your thinking. Climb is based on airspeed not attitude. Attitude is secondary to airspeed. If you’re flight director is getting corrupted airspeed then so are you. TOGA is a generic cue. Not specific to aircraft model. 

[PT20J]

7 hours ago, N231BN said:

I disagree with the use of IAS mode for IFR takeoffs. The TO in TOGA stands for takeoff, I wouldn't want an airspeed issue messing with my FD while entering IMC close to the ground.

Initial climb at positive pitch attitude with reference to airspeed of course. Once at a safe IFR altitude you can then transition to IAS or VS for enroute climb.

I am interested to hear other's thoughts on this.

It's a valid point worth considering. TOGA will give you a positive 7 deg pitch up command. IAS will work fine also UNLESS there were a clogged pitot tube or big leak in the pitot system (from perhaps a defective drain). Covered static ports would also be problematic.

There have been a number of airline crashes due to erroneous airspeed indications even with everything else working, so apparently it's pretty disorienting.

Skip

[midlifeflyer]

On 1/22/2022 at 8:42 AM, N231BN said:

I disagree with the use of IAS mode for IFR takeoffs. The TO in TOGA stands for takeoff, I wouldn't want an airspeed issue messing with my FD while entering IMC close to the ground.

Initial climb at positive pitch attitude with reference to airspeed of course. Once at a safe IFR altitude you can then transition to IAS or VS for enroute climb.

I am interested to hear other's thoughts on this.

It kind of depends. The reason for IAS mode is to avoid a stall which can occur with VS mode. But I think this illustrates something else, which I think you are getting at (and I have been thinking about recently). I have seen pilots lose directional control on the missed by rushing the full reengagement of the autopilot. TOGA gives us a target for the climb. but IMO the first stage of the missed is manual. We need to power up, move to our climb attitude, and clean up the airplane while maintaining directional control and the pitch given us by the FD. It is once we establish that clean climb, we can engage the AP in its default roll/pitch/TOGA mode (which may be IAS in some AP systems). At that point it should be a nice normal climb out with no real concern for whether it's VS or IAS mode. 

I think lateral navigation is next in process. Roll is fine, but heading is usually better, so I'd confirm the bug and engage HDG mode. Then select or confirm GPS and NAV source,  resume or confirm resumption of automatic sequencing, hit NAV if appropriate (depending on the missed instructions or your AP, it might not be).

To me, setting/confirming target altitude and engaging IAS or VS mode is dead last in the process.  The whole thing is much faster to do than to read, but we do have enough time to think and act.

[rbp]

53 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

the first stage of the missed is manual

power up, pitch up, gear up, flaps up should all be in muscle memory

[KB4]

FD operates with and without AP engaged.  

Press ToGo button before TO, FD is engaged and will give you command Chevron for preprogrammed pitch specific to your model, FD will provide guidance to the route in NAV FP without engaging AP. 
 

 

[midlifeflyer]

18 hours ago, rbp said:

power up, pitch up, gear up, flaps up should all be in muscle memory