Landing gear rubber discs/OPP

[Guest]

9 hours ago, tmo said:

Here they take 23% (VAT) and then another 19% (corp. income). I dread thinking what they would charge if they actually showed up...

At 23% I bet a big portion of the service business is done with barter or under the table.

Clarence

[carusoam]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:54 PM, PT20J said:

Years ago there was a fad in Southern CA restaurants. You would pick out your raw steak from a cold case and cook it yourself at a table-side grill. All the server brought you was drinks, a baked potato and a salad. It wasn’t cheap, either. I never understood it.

Skip

U R Cooks..? (Chain, one in Houston…)

Lessons available… brief tips, to full how to cook a steak

What happens when you goof it up..?

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

8 minutes ago, carusoam said:

What happens when you goof it up..?

I'm pretty sure they will sell you another 

[RobertGary1]

On 7/16/2021 at 2:11 PM, Alan Fox said:

Any smart buyer , will see the pucks installed , to save a feww hundred dollars , then they will see the cheap tires , and cheap inner tubes , then the cheap this , and the cheap that.... and will figure out the culture of the owner as far as maintenence and skimping on maintenence , and then will move on to the next aircraft.....As far as being an A&P goes , If I cant make money on parts , Im not installing them....  Sorry , but I need to earn a living too..... 

What do you mean skimp? I see an owner who's putting new parts the same quality as the best you can buy rather than leaving old tires and donuts on the plane like most everyone else.

[Alan Fox]

21 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

What do you mean skimp? I see an owner who's putting new parts the same quality as the best you can buy rather than leaving old tires and donuts on the plane like most everyone else.

They are not the same quality , and they are not legal , all to save a few hundred dollars , its a shitty culture...

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

They are not the same quality , and they are not legal , all to save a few hundred dollars , its a shitty culture...

Please tell us how you know they are of lower quality?  

I guess the same could be said of Gee Bee and his products, are people cheaping out buying his baffle sealing tapes versus those made by the OEM?

Clarence

[MikeOH]

25 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

They are not the same quality , and they are not legal , all to save a few hundred dollars , its a shitty culture...

Let's take those one at a time:

1) Have you actually purchased one and done a DPA or life testing?  On what, exactly, do you make that bold statement?

2) It would seem OPP at least allow some uncertainty in whether they are, in fact, illegal.

3) I'm glad "a few hundred" dollars is meaningless to you. Not all of us are rich airplane owners

4) I would NOT call a culture that investigates all options and chooses a lower cost, effective, path shitty.  Merely because a product is lower price does NOT mean it's shitty, either.

[EricJ]

8 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

4) I would NOT call a culture that investigates all options and chooses a lower cost, effective, path shitty.  Merely because a product is lower price does NOT mean it's shitty, either.

Especially when it was developed decades later and can take advantage of newer materials and techniques.    If I had to take an engineering wag on which was superior than the other, my first guess would be the more newly-developed one is more likely to be superior.    One of the OPP criteria is "at least as good or better" than the original, and when replacing parts originally developed and sourced four- to six-decades ago, coming up with something better is often the expectation.

 

[Guest]

Anyone remember when Rapco Aircraft Parts made knock off Lord discs?

Clarence

[Alan Fox]

41 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Especially when it was developed decades later and can take advantage of newer materials and techniques.    If I had to take an engineering wag on which was superior than the other, my first guess would be the more newly-developed one is more likely to be superior.    One of the OPP criteria is "at least as good or better" than the original, and when replacing parts originally developed and sourced four- to six-decades ago, coming up with something better is often the expectation.

 

These are not "Owner produced parts" They are not legal , If you think some guy making these in his garage , can do a better job than Lord , you are kidding yourself , If they were so great , they would certify them ,with whatever agency is in south africa......  I dont think I would put the south african engineered parts on an aircraft , And I certainly would not risk my license doing so..

 

[Alan Fox]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Please tell us how you know they are of lower quality?  

I guess the same could be said of Gee Bee and his products, are people cheaping out buying his baffle sealing tapes versus those made by the OEM?

Clarence

I will let you use Guys parts , dont forget to sign them off....  Press Release – FAA Proposes $203,100 Civil Penalty Against GEE-BEE Aeroproducts

 

[EricJ]

1 minute ago, Alan Fox said:

These are not "Owner produced parts" They are not legal , If you think some guy making these in his garage , can do a better job than Lord , you are kidding yourself , If they were so great , they would certify them ,with whatever agency is in south africa......  I dont think I would put the south african engineered parts on an aircraft , And I certainly would not risk my license doing so..

 

Parts sourced using any of the compliant OPP processes can be used.   When this supplier's process was looked at earlier it was evident that this can be not much different than having McFarlane make control cables.   

[Old Chub]

I guess I should take my recently reproduced OPP up and down locks and throw them in the trash...

This is nonsense.   

With all of the areas discussed regarding OPP to include McFarland and others how can anyone make such definitive statements.  Also, does anyone have any data to show these are not acceptable parts as I have not heard anything that would make me think otherwise. 

On another note if someone wishes to go this direction and procures these parts I don't see how bashing the idea with no data supports the intent of this site.   

 

 

[Alan Fox]

Owner Produced Parts Regulations (csobeech.com)

[Alan Fox]

7 hours ago, Old Chub said:

I guess I should take my recently reproduced OPP up and down locks and throw them in the trash...

This is nonsense.   

With all of the areas discussed regarding OPP to include McFarland and others how can anyone make such definitive statements.  Also, does anyone have any data to show these are not acceptable parts as I have not heard anything that would make me think otherwise. 

On another note if someone wishes to go this direction and procures these parts I don't see how bashing the idea with no data supports the intent of this site.   

 

 

It may be nonsense , but it is the law , Better put the blocks in yourself , and not tell anyone , as Technically since they were offered for sale , They are not legal ,   PS , dont shoot the messenger...

[Alan Fox]

8 hours ago, EricJ said:

Parts sourced using any of the compliant OPP processes can be used.   When this supplier's process was looked at earlier it was evident that this can be not much different than having McFarlane make control cables.   

 

8 hours ago, EricJ said:

Parts sourced using any of the compliant OPP processes can be used.   When this supplier's process was looked at earlier it was evident that this can be not much different than having McFarlane make control cables.   

MacFarlane , Has the PMA ,  THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE , I guarantee you the PMA and and capabilities , are included in thier 145 capabilities list...

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

I will let you use Guys parts , dont forget to sign them off....  Press Release – FAA Proposes $203,100 Civil Penalty Against GEE-BEE Aeroproducts

 

I’ve installed numerous sets of his baffle sealing tapes.  How is buying pre cut tapes from him different than me buying a sheet of material from Spruce, tracing out the old ones and cutting them with my scissors?

Still waiting for an answer on how you know the South African parts are of lower quality?

Clarence

[Alan Fox]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I’ve installed numerous sets of his baffle sealing tapes.  How is buying pre cut tapes from him different than me buying a sheet of material from Spruce, tracing out the old ones and cutting them with my scissors?

Still waiting for an answer on how you know the South African parts are of lower quality?

Clarence

You just answered your own question , 

 

 

[Alan Fox]

5 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I’ve installed numerous sets of his baffle sealing tapes.  How is buying pre cut tapes from him different than me buying a sheet of material from Spruce, tracing out the old ones and cutting them with my scissors?

Still waiting for an answer on how you know the South African parts are of lower quality?

Clarence

And I happen to like Guy , and his products , He is knowledgeable and helpful , But legality is a different story..

 

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

MacFarlane , Has the PMA ,  THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE , I guarantee you the PMA and and capabilities , are included in thier 145 capabilities list...

That means diddly squat when buying a non-stock part from them without a Mooney part number.    I've bought both OPP and proper P/N cables from them for my airplane and they're not made the same.    I actually prefer the OPP ones.

 

[RobertGary1]

You scoundrels probably also buy timken bearings without the “tso” stamped on them like the originals came. 

[Alan Fox]

37 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That means diddly squat when buying a non-stock part from them without a Mooney part number.    I've bought both OPP and proper P/N cables from them for my airplane and they're not made the same.    I actually prefer the OPP ones.

 

Pma means LEGAL…

 

[Hank]

9 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

Pma means LEGAL…

 

But is not required for Owner Produced Parts. The FARs detail "owner produced," and it doesn't mean that I have to do any cutting, welding, bending or in this case, compounding or pouring rubber . . . . .

[EricJ]

23 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

Pma means LEGAL…

PMA has zero to do with parts produced outside of the authorized processes, such as the cables McFarlane provides under the OPP process.    McFarlane very carefully points this out in a disclaimer on the part spec when getting an OPP part that the part is "not FAA approved" and the purchaser's signature certifies "that if this part is to be installed on a type-certificated aircraft it will be installed in full compliance with one of the exceptions listed in 14 CFR 21.9(a)."

When you get a cable from McFarlane with a Mooney part number you do not get that disclaimer, you get an order that says "McFarlane Aviation Products FAA-PMA Replacement Aircraft Parts", an invoice with a Certificate of Conformance citing quality clauses assuring approval, and a tag on the part that says "FAA-PMA".  

They are very different.    An FAA-PMA does not apply to all parts produced by a manufacturer with a PMA authorization, and it is important to understand the distinction.   A part sourced from McFarlane under OPP has the same status as one properly sourced from anywhere else under the OPP processes.

 

[Alan Fox]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

But is not required for Owner Produced Parts. The FARs detail "owner produced," and it doesn't mean that I have to do any cutting, welding, bending or in this case, compounding or pouring rubber . . . . .

The PMA was in reference to MacFarlane...