MattyD Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 Hello fellow Mooney Spacers. Recently purchased a 1969 F model with a functioning PC wing leveler that works great. Looking to upgrade to a 3 axis style autopilot without spending $10k plus on the new systems. The previous owner installed a KSN770 GPS so I’m “stuck” with that for the near future (Nice box, but doesn’t communicate with most autopilots and not looking to replace it). I know some others have talked about the older Brittan systems, but not sure exactly how to pursue that route or the best way to affordably work that direction. Any help you can give is greatly appreciated. Loving being a new Mooney owner and always love MS! Thanks in advance! -Matt
carusoam Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 Matty, How familiar are you with the Brittain wing leveler? There is a box you can add so the wing leveler can follow a course or a route... either VOR or GPS... (Many around here have one installed) it might be named something like a BI805 valve or something like that... There is another box you can add to have it hold altitude... If you want an AP for under 10K that does everything the latest G500 does... Join us in the other threads lamenting lack of progress in the AP world... Surely the KSN770 has the outputs to drive a basic heading... how did your plane get that? Each one in the field has a story... it had to be bought by somebody... what they did with it is always interesting... many avionics shops bought one to keep in touch with BK... It will really help to get to know what you have... so that you can make progress one step at a time... It is amazing how well a Brittain system can be made to work... There is a resource around here that deals in pre-flown Mooney avionics... you may want to put your list of things together and approach him to see what he has on your list... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a-
MattyD Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Posted October 7, 2020 19 minutes ago, carusoam said: Matty, How familiar are you with the Brittain wing leveler? There is a box you can add so the wing leveler can follow a course or a route... either VOR or GPS... (Many around here have one installed) it might be named something like a BI805 valve or something like that... There is another box you can add to have it hold altitude... If you want an AP for under 10K that does everything the latest G500 does... Join us in the other threads lamenting lack of progress in the AP world... Surely the KSN770 has the outputs to drive a basic heading... how did your plane get that? Each one in the field has a story... it had to be bought by somebody... what they did with it is always interesting... many avionics shops bought one to keep in touch with BK... It will really help to get to know what you have... so that you can make progress one step at a time... It is amazing how well a Brittain system can be made to work... There is a resource around here that deals in pre-flown Mooney avionics... you may want to put your list of things together and approach him to see what he has on your list... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- I am mildly familiar with the Brittan wing leveler. It does look like my F model may have had the heading hold box previously just based on a blank space above the new GPS, but I’m not 100% sure. I’m sure the KSN can drive whatever it needed to, but bendix doesn’t seem motivated to allow the software to drive anything but their stuff. A tragedy as an owner who can’t afford that upgrade. Currenly I only have the wing leveler positive control with the roll trim located on the turn coordinator and the old school button on the yoke to override. I’ll dig into the logs and see what more info I can get to aid in planning the next phase. Good call on the classified. I want to be able to post a decent ad so a seller can find me. Might now my ad would sadly be pretty vague. Thanks for the quick response. I’m glad I’m not the only late night MS watcher. Hahaha. -Matt
carusoam Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 Matty, MS operates 24/7... Austria gets the sunlight before the UK does... and it’s still hours before the East Coast sees the light of day... Each time you think it’s late the Best Coast guys are still hanging out around the airport... Then there are the early Eagles and the late night owls... in each location... Keep an eye out for @Alan Fox .. he is in the business of pre-flown avionics and Mooney parts... often he has his hands on the various Brittain parts... The good news is... you are starting with a working Brittain system... My first Mooney needed help in that department... without MS, it couldn’t get better... (all issues of being back in the day) Best regards, -a-
MattyD Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Posted October 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, carusoam said: Matty, MS operates 24/7... Austria gets the sunlight before the UK does... and it’s still hours before the East Coast sees the light of day... Each time you think it’s late the Best Coast guys are still hanging out around the airport... Then there are the early Eagles and the late night owls... in each location... Keep an eye out for @Alan Fox .. he is in the business of pre-flown avionics and Mooney parts... often he has his hands on the various Brittain parts... The good news is... you are starting with a working Brittain system... My first Mooney needed help in that department... without MS, it couldn’t get better... (all issues of being back in the day) Best regards, -a- Haha! You are so right. At any given time some Mooney driver is up early or late or another time zone. We basically make the world go around. Awesome! I’ll reach out to him and see if maybe he has the parts or can start a look out for them with a buyer ready. MS is truly a game changer and from what I’ve seen some of the nicest people. Not like many other pilot forums. A community I’m very proud to be a part of. Thanks again! -Matt 1
carusoam Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 @Mooneydriver805, If you are still around... Have a look at the post above... One of many... today. It is worth it. Best regards, -a- 1
RobertGary1 Posted October 9, 2020 Report Posted October 9, 2020 I have the electric Britain autopilot in my F. Honestly I wouldn’t put money into it. There is almost no service still for it (no one legally able to repair the head or the turn coordinator) and it needs almost regular adjustments to the pots. I’m going to replace mine with the gfc 500. -Robert
MattyD Posted October 10, 2020 Author Report Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/9/2020 at 12:45 PM, RobertGary1 said: I have the electric Britain autopilot in my F. Honestly I wouldn’t put money into it. There is almost no service still for it (no one legally able to repair the head or the turn coordinator) and it needs almost regular adjustments to the pots. I’m going to replace mine with the gfc 500. -Robert That is my only fear with going with an old Brittain, but the costs of a GFC 500 scare me even more. Installed cost quotes look to be 40% of what I paid for the plane. It’s just tough. The GFC 500 is pretty though. Most things garmin are. They know how to make me want everything. Hahaha.
RobertGary1 Posted October 10, 2020 Report Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, MattyD said: That is my only fear with going with an old Brittain, but the costs of a GFC 500 scare me even more. Installed cost quotes look to be 40% of what I paid for the plane. It’s just tough. The GFC 500 is pretty though. Most things garmin are. They know how to make me want everything. Hahaha. Yea especially if you’re not already Garmin. I paid slightly more for my gi-275 for autopilot support which decreases the cost of the 500 system. -Robert
Hector Posted October 11, 2020 Report Posted October 11, 2020 I have the electric Britain autopilot in my F. Honestly I wouldn’t put money into it. There is almost no service still for it (no one legally able to repair the head or the turn coordinator) and it needs almost regular adjustments to the pots. I’m going to replace mine with the gfc 500. -Robert I guess i must be lucky i have not needed any adjustments to the pots since I bought the plane 8 years ago. I had to retape my aileron boots and have the servo control valve overhauled. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
McMooney Posted October 11, 2020 Report Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Hector said: I guess i must be lucky i have not needed any adjustments to the pots since I bought the plane 8 years ago. I had to retape my aileron boots and have the servo control valve overhauled. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk last 3 years i've only replaced a servo boot, otherwise works great. Not sure i'd put the sys in a new plane. honestly, who knows when these new autopilots will even become avail, might be worth it. Thinking how the system works, except for a vacuum pump, seems pretty bullet proof. I wonder how difficult it would be to create a new controller for the existing system. Edited October 11, 2020 by McMooney
RobertGary1 Posted October 11, 2020 Report Posted October 11, 2020 1 minute ago, McMooney said: last 3 years i've only replaced a servo boot, otherwise works great. Not sure i'd put the sys in a new plane. honestly, who knows when these new autopilots will even become avail, might be worth it. I was thinking how the system works, except for a vacuum pump it seems pretty bullet proof. wonder how difficult it would be to create a new controller for the existing system I think we’re thinking different systems. The electric Britain system has no vacuum. Just an electronic control board at the head and a servo motor in the wing. -Robert
carusoam Posted October 11, 2020 Report Posted October 11, 2020 Just now, McMooney said: wonder how difficult it would be to create a new controller for the existing system Depending on your skills... not very hard to create. If you are familiar with process controllers... and PID loops... Near impossible to get manufactured in accordance FAA guidance... Expect to build thousands to make economic sense... Incredibly expensive to meet FAA guidance/approval... The experimental world is where building one, and installing it, makes more sense... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a-
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