Upgrading 830 to 900?

[MooneyBe]

Any perspectives on the cost to upgrade from the JPI-830 to the JPI-900? I'm curious why it seems the 830 is more ubiquitous than the 900 given the 900 frees up all the original engine gauge(s) space? Is the 900 much more expensive, prone to fail, just didn't come out until after the 830, etc? 

[ArtVandelay]

Pretty sure 830 was available before 900.

Also, removing the factory stuff also drives up installation costs. As well as the extra sensors (fuel pressure, fuel levels). You’ll have to calibrate the fuel senders, means draining and refueling the tank...takes time.

[LANCECASPER]

39 minutes ago, MooneyBe said:

Any perspectives on the cost to upgrade from the JPI-830 to the JPI-900? I'm curious why it seems the 830 is more ubiquitous than the 900 given the 900 frees up all the original engine gauge(s) space? Is the 900 much more expensive, prone to fail, just didn't come out until after the 830, etc? 

A lot of 830 installations were evolutionary - they started with a 700 and upgraded and got trade-in credit. The connectors all were plug and play to upgrade and extra features could be added.

[gsxrpilot]

Friends don't let Friends buy EDM 830's. 

830's just kick the problem a little further down the road. Contrary to popular opinion, it doesn't provide any redundancy for the factory gauges. If a factory gauge fails, the plane is not airworthy. 

The list of pilots on this forum, who installed an 830 and regretted it a year later when they're installing a 900, is long.

[CharlesHuddleston]

I was looking at this same thing recently. I upgraded my 800 to an 830 (which is essentially a bigger/better display). I was told by JPI that the harnesses and sensors were the same, but with the 900 series monitors, because they are certified replacements, they are sold only as a full kit. You could then try top resell the probes and harness, but otherwise you have a higher out of pocket expense. 

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Friends don't let Friends buy EDM 830's. 

830's just kick the problem a little further down the road. Contrary to popular opinion, it doesn't provide any redundancy for the factory gauges. If a factory gauge fails, the plane is not airworthy. 

The list of pilots on this forum, who installed an 830 and regretted it a year later when they're installing a 900, is long.

I am a member of that list (the one that kicked the can down the road, not the one that regretted it). I put the 830 in telling myself I wouldn't want to upgrade later, but knowing in the back of my mind there was a good chance I was just kicking the can down the road. At the time I spent $2100 on the EDM-830 and another $2500 for the install. I didn't want to spend the extra money on the 900 which would have been about $2000 more for the unit and I'm not sure how much more labor would be involved. Money was fairly tight and having an engine monitor was high on the list of things I wanted to do. I don't regret putting in the 830, I've been flying with it for three years now and have been very grateful to have it, it has provided troubleshooting information on more than one occasion. Finances are much better now and there is a 900 sitting on the shelf along with a bunch of other avionics, the panel will look much different in the next month.

1 hour ago, CharlesHuddleston said:

I was looking at this same thing recently. I upgraded my 800 to an 830 (which is essentially a bigger/better display). I was told by JPI that the harnesses and sensors were the same, but with the 900 series monitors, because they are certified replacements, they are sold only as a full kit. You could then try top resell the probes and harness, but otherwise you have a higher out of pocket expense. 

Yes, the harnesses and sensors/probes are the same for the 830 and 900. They do only sell it as a kit and you are supposed to change out everything, but talk with your AP/IA, they are the ones signing off on it and some will do so without changing the harnesses and sensors/probes. The real difference is that settings (warning levels) are programmed into the unit to the settings in your POH and can't be changed. If your AP/IA will sign off on it without having to change the sensors/probes/harnesses you can save a lot of time and work on the installation/upgrade. 

If you are going to upgrade spend the extra for the CIES fuel senders.

I bought a 900 along with the CIES senders back in January when they had their rebates, it's been sitting on the shelf for quite some time now but I will be putting it in the plane most likely this week.

[ArtVandelay]

Yes, the harnesses and sensors/probes are the same for the 830 and 900. They do only sell it as a kit and you are supposed to change out everything, but talk with your AP/IA, they are the ones signing off on it and some will do so without changing the harnesses and sensors/probes. The real difference is that settings (warning levels) are programmed into the unit to the settings in your POH and can't be changed. If your AP/IA will sign off on it without having to change the sensors/probes/harnesses you can save a lot of time and work on the installation/upgrade. 
If you are going to upgrade spend the extra for the CIES fuel senders.
I bought a 900 along with the CIES senders back in January when they had their rebates, it's been sitting on the shelf for quite some time now but I will be putting it in the plane most likely this week.

Not entirely true, some sensors have the same part number, some don’t. You must change those that don’t.

CIES installed is probably over $2000 installed for those with 4 senders, I kept the factory units, 2 overhauled. They work fine.
But just because your senders work with analog gauges doesn’t mean it will work with digital precision, you’ll need to carefully check them to make sure readings don’t jump around as you move the arm.

[StevenL757]

6 hours ago, MooneyBe said:

Any perspectives on the cost to upgrade from the JPI-830 to the JPI-900? I'm curious why it seems the 830 is more ubiquitous than the 900 given the 900 frees up all the original engine gauge(s) space? Is the 900 much more expensive, prone to fail, just didn't come out until after the 830, etc? 

 

5 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Friends don't let Friends buy EDM 830's. 

830's just kick the problem a little further down the road. Contrary to popular opinion, it doesn't provide any redundancy for the factory gauges. If a factory gauge fails, the plane is not airworthy. 

The list of pilots on this forum, who installed an 830 and regretted it a year later when they're installing a 900, is long.

@MooneyBe, do yourself a favor and talk to your shop.  They will get you a quote from JPI on a 900 upgrade.  Unless your probes are completely unusable, they will might be able to leverage your existing set.  There's so much more information on the 900, and the panel space you'll save will be well worth it.  You can spend more money putting in more gadgets!

[MooneyBe]

Thanks gents. For now, I just need to get the factory CHT 'steam' gauge into working order (as part of a purchase) but I think the 900 (although perhaps the G5 so we can gut the vacuum system will take priority..) is on our 2-year roadmap.

@Skates97 let us know how the install goes! 

[carusoam]

When upgrading instrumentation...

Be aware of the primary gauges... and if the upgrade qualifies to do the job...

The JPI 900 qualifies... EI has one, Insight has a few, and now Garmin has a system that works too...

Decide what level you want... select a supplier of choice... gear a quote for the install...

The install can easily be similar to the price of the instrument...

Select one that is easy to download the data off of it...

For the one day a question comes up like... have you guys ever seen this on your engines? Post the data... use Savvy...

Best regards,

-a-