Needed: Administrative Assistance With FAA Building Hangars

[Frank B.]

I am in the process of building two large buildings which will be divided into a total of 10 hangars here in central Florida on a public use airport that participates in the AIP program. I have signed my lease and am currently waiting for my lease to be ratified by the full city commission but I am trying to get a jump on the administrative process.
A lot has changed with the FAA requirements since I built my last hangar in the mid 90’s. 
I don’t need help with site engineering or submitting anything to the city nor do I need help with site prep, construction or permitting. What I do need help with and would like to hire someone knowledgeable to perform is to prepare me a list of everything that I need to submit to the FAA for approval as well as a review of my existing site utilization plan to confirm that my set backs and the height of my hangars are in compliance. I also need someone that is familiar with filling out and submitting FAA Form 7460-1. I also understand that there is a new requirement which began in January 2020 for an environmental assessment or possibly a categoric exclusion from the environmental assessment. I want to get this FAA process right the first time and not do a learn as I go application process. I have reached out to two different aviation consulting firms with little success. They want the entire package including the engineering and applying for the city permits etc. or they don’t want to be involved at all. Being a licensed FL GC and mechanical contractor we have a great in house engineer as well as two in house permit technicians, so we don’t need any help on that end. 
If anyone is familiar with this process and can tell me exactly what forms are needed and what all is involved in getting the FAA approval And would be willing to consult with my company for a reasonable fee I would like to hear back from you. I am also very open to paying someone to fill out the required FAA documents and I guess walk me through this process from the beginning to the end. I have heard from the two different consultants that this takes anywhere from 30 to 45 days with the FAA. I would like for this to coincide with my plans review with the city if at all possible. I am NOT looking for anyone to do this for free. I am not a CSOB and am willing to pay a fair price for this service. If you have the knowledge and experience needed to provide what I need and are willing to help, please shoot me a PM. If you know of someone else that has this knowledge and would be willing to help me out then please PM me with their information. I have always found this forum to be very helpful and suspect that there may very well be members of this forum who have the info that I am looking for or can at least steer me in the right direction. Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 Frank

[bradp]

Frank if you need a hand I can put you in touch with the gentlemen who built three rows of hangars on an AIP airport here in Wilmington. 

[carusoam]

There is at least one or two hangar building threads around here...

Troubles and tribulations abound...

Best regards,

-a-

[Frank B.]

On 6/14/2020 at 7:47 AM, bradp said:

Frank if you need a hand I can put you in touch with the gentlemen who built three rows of hangars on an AIP airport here in Wilmington. 

Brad, I thought that I had found someone, but maybe not. if you could pass along that information via PM it would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks, Frank 

[bradp]

Sure Frank I’ll find out and send you a PM

[Frank B.]

We finally went under contract with a consultant and he is going to be getting my paperwork submitted ASAP.

THANKS to those who replied and PM’ed me with information.

Frank

[carusoam]

Keep us up to date with your progress, if able...

Best regards,

-a-

[Frank B.]

It was my original intentions to build the hangars 65 Wide and 52 Deep with a 60 X 18 door. The consultant recommends that I go 60 ft deep rather than 52. Does anyone have any experiences or suggestions concerning the depth being 60 ft vs 52 ft?

Thanks, Frank

[carusoam]

From my construction background, non-aviation...

Longer span doors get extra expensive, as does the construction costs for the longer span....

As a user of the space... I have seen mechanical engineers use paper dolls of the scaled machines that need to fit in the space....
 

Literally placing scaled drawings of planes on a scaled drawing of the hangar.... this does two things...

• Test the static fit of all the planes and support vehicles and machinery...
• Test what else needs to move to get the Beech out from the waaaay back...
   

It’s amazing how the paper dolls, including people dolls, can give you a good feeling of what works and what doesn’t....

It may turn out, you want the big wide door up front for a variety of reasons...

PP thoughts only, not a construction manager...

Best regards,

-a-

[Frank B.]

15 minutes ago, carusoam said:

From my construction background, non-aviation...

Longer span doors get extra expensive, as does the construction costs for the longer span....

As a user of the space... I have seen mechanical engineers use paper dolls of the scaled machines that need to fit in the space....
 

Literally placing scaled drawings of planes on a scaled drawing of the hangar.... this does two things...

• Test the static fit of all the planes and support vehicles and machinery...
• Test what else needs to move to get the Beech out from the waaaay back...
   

It’s amazing how the paper dolls, including people dolls, can give you a good feeling of what works and what doesn’t....

It may turn out, you want the big wide door up front for a variety of reasons...

PP thoughts only, not a construction manager...

Best regards,

-a-

I am wanting to be able to easily fit a King Air 350. My main hangar now has a 60 ft door but it’s only 14 ft tall.

[carusoam]

So... not being familiar with the Kingair...

I looked up it’s Wing span...   58’

So now I know I mis-interpreted the question... 

Are the choices 60X60 and 60X52? (Useable space)
 

I saw 60X52 and 52X60. (One of these definitely would be a problem getting 58’ of wing through a 52’ door....)

If not too much trouble... give yourself a couple of extra feet for the wings to get past the door... guides on the floor will help... it would be great to not run a wing tip into the new walls...
 

I think @Yooper Rocketman has recently been involved with building a pretty large hangar... seeing if he has time to stop by here...

Best regards,

-a-

[Frank B.]

6 hours ago, carusoam said:

So... not being familiar with the Kingair...

I looked up it’s Wing span...   58’

So now I know I mis-interpreted the question... 

Are the choices 60X60 and 60X52? (Useable space)
 

I saw 60X52 and 52X60. (One of these definitely would be a problem getting 58’ of wing through a 52’ door....)

If not too much trouble... give yourself a couple of extra feet for the wings to get past the door... guides on the floor will help... it would be great to not run a wing tip into the new walls...
 

I think @Yooper Rocketman has recently been involved with building a pretty large hangar... seeing if he has time to stop by here...

Best regards,

-a-

Hangar 65 X 52 or 65 X 60. The door is 60 X 18. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Frank B. said:

Hangar 65 X 52 or 65 X 60. The door is 60 X 18. 

I've never had, seen or heard "this hangar is too big."

[Yooper Rocketman]

Your cost per square foot in the additional depth will be considerably less the rest of the building because all your adding is wall, roof and floor space to expand it.  The overall building cost considers all the other fixed costs that will not change due to more depth (end walls, doors, windows, electrical, etc.).

Go 60' x 60' (and run the numbers on the difference in total cost to see how cheap that extra 8' is).  Like Hank said, you will never hear someone complain they went too big on a hangar.

(Like "A" said, I'm building a 70' x 75' hangar as we speak for our EAA Chapter.  It's my fourth one I've built or assisted on).

Tom

[Frank B.]

Just now, Yooper Rocketman said:

Your cost per square foot in the additional depth will be considerably less the rest of the building because all your adding is wall, roof and floor space to expand it.  The overall building cost considers all the other fixed costs that will not change due to more depth (end walls, doors, windows, electrical, etc.).

Go 60' x 60' (and run the numbers on the difference in total cost to see how cheap that extra 8' is).  Like Hank said, you will never hear someone complain they went too big on a hangar.

(Like "A" said, I'm building a 70' x 75' hangar as we speak for our EAA Chapter.  It's my fourth one I've built or assisted on).

Tom

One of mine is going to be 260 X 52 or 60 with 4 hangars in it. The other building is going to be 390 ft X 52 or 60. My cost difference between 52 ft deep and 60 ft deep is approximately 17,500 per hangar so approx 175K difference for the complete job to make all 10 hangars an extra 8 ft deep.

[Hank]

@Frank B., while that is a significant number in itself, is it a significant percentage increase in total cost? Figure it's 15% more square footage on either building, so if the cost increase is less than 10% and it's within your projected budget and rental projections, then go for bigger hangars. If it doesn't, then stick with 52' deep.

We are good at giving advice, and even better at spending other people's money. I for one am just excited to see someone actually building hangars!! Please don't bog down into paralysis by analysis . . . . .

[Yooper Rocketman]

On 6/25/2020 at 7:15 AM, Frank B. said:

One of mine is going to be 260 X 52 or 60 with 4 hangars in it. The other building is going to be 390 ft X 52 or 60. My cost difference between 52 ft deep and 60 ft deep is approximately 17,500 per hangar so approx 175K difference for the complete job to make all 10 hangars an extra 8 ft deep.

I misunderstood.  I thought you were doing one hangar.  That DOES make a big difference when talking multiple hangars.

Tom