Pilatus PC12 down S Dakota

[bonal]

Article said 9 fatalities 3 injured but not much more information other than very poor weather. Don't know if this was a departure or if the incident aircraft was in cruise to destination Idaho.  A PC12 is a well equipped IMC airplane lots of bad weather around the country right now and of course even turbo props can fail but likely weather related . You IFR guys be cautious as for us VFR well easy no go decision.

prayers for the many affected by this tragedy 

[Davidv]

5 minutes ago, bonal said:

Article said 9 fatalities 3 injured but not much more information other than very poor weather. Don't know if this was a departure or if the incident aircraft was in cruise to destination Idaho.  A PC12 is a well equipped IMC airplane lots of bad weather around the country right now and of course even turbo props can fail but likely weather related . You IFR guys be cautious as for us VFR well easy no go decision.

prayers for the many affected by this tragedy 

Pretty sure its not a 12 person airplane...Also returning from hunting trip so maybe bringing back even more weight.

[GeeBee]

12 passengers would be a pretty heavy lift even for a PC12. However the article said 2 were children so there might be "lap children". In any event, this airplane was heavy with that kind of pax load.

[aviatoreb]

52 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

12 passengers would be a pretty heavy lift even for a PC12. However the article said 2 were children so there might be "lap children". In any event, this airplane was heavy with that kind of pax load.

We don't know how they handled that with fuel loading, but I like to think they were at least in W&B.  But clearly something went wrong.

[Skates97]

There's a very long thread over on BT and a number of news articles all over the web. The last I had seen was that it was on departure and went down about a mile from the airport.

[carusoam]

As a pilot, do whatever it takes to not make the cover of USAToday.... -a-
 

 article from USA TODAY:

NTSB: Nine people killed, three injured in South Dakota plane crash

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/11/30/plane-crash-south-dakota-kills-nine-people-ntsb-says/4343688002/
 

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

We don't know how they handled that with fuel loading, but I like to think they were at least in W&B.  But clearly something went wrong.

The planned flight was short so they didn’t need to carry all 2700 pounds of fuel. 

[kpaul]

You would really have to try to get the PC-12 out of W&B/CG.  The crash a few years back of a PC-12 in Butte MT had a similar load out of passengers and it was determined by the NTSB that it was well within CG and W&B. 

I have nearly 2000 hours flying PC-12s well above the published weights, all with Pilatus engineers blessing.  Because of this you can purchase a STC from Pilatus to increase the max gross weight.

Doubtful that it would require a full fuel load to fly from South Dakota to Idaho, although my guess is there would have been significant headwinds heading west into a winter storm.

From what I can tell the departure airport only had self service fuel and no other services.  Hopefully the PIC did not save money by skipping the anti-ice inhibitor in the fuel (cause of Butte crash). Reports are of an inch of show per hour.  How do you de-ice a T-tail aircraft without a de-icing truck?

Always sad especially when children are involved. 

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, kpaul said:

From what I can tell the departure airport only had self service fuel and no other services.  Hopefully the PIC did not save money by skipping the anti-ice inhibitor in the fuel (cause of Butte crash). Reports are of an inch of show per hour.  How do you de-ice a T-tail aircraft without a de-icing truck?

These are the sorts of things I'm wondering as well.   Bad weather may have influenced some misfueling or pre-flight inattention just because of the wind/cold/snow impairments of the ground ops.

Very tragic.

I remember reading details about the Butte crash, which was also pretty crazy.

 

 

[EricJ]

https://www.newscenter1.tv/south-dakota-airplane-crash-kills-9-in-extended-family/

Looks like maybe was operated by one of the family members since there is no pilot listed separately.

 

[thinwing]

21 hours ago, kpaul said:

You would really have to try to get the PC-12 out of W&B/CG.  The crash a few years back of a PC-12 in Butte MT had a similar load out of passengers and it was determined by the NTSB that it was well within CG and W&B. 

I have nearly 2000 hours flying PC-12s well above the published weights, all with Pilatus engineers blessing.  Because of this you can purchase a STC from Pilatus to increase the max gross weight.

Doubtful that it would require a full fuel load to fly from South Dakota to Idaho, although my guess is there would have been significant headwinds heading west into a winter storm.

From what I can tell the departure airport only had self service fuel and no other services.  Hopefully the PIC did not save money by skipping the anti-ice inhibitor in the fuel (cause of Butte crash). Reports are of an inch of show per hour.  How do you de-ice a T-tail aircraft without a de-icing truck?

Always sad especially when children are involved. 

They were pheasant hunting...and crash site 1 mile from departure...rw lists obstacle and rising terrain...no deice available and snow removal from the tail of a pc-12 requires a tall ladder to reach 14 ft !

[EricJ]

It's pretty flat out there, especially around the airport.   I don't think there's anything to hit for quite a ways in any direction.   Been there many times, but not flown into the airport, that I remember, anyway.

[irishpilot]

Flying Magazine just did a quick article on the initial NTSB findings. I'll pull that report and look at it. Bottom line: plane was left outside in freezing precip, the pilot spent three hours trying to remove it, took off and lasted two minutes airborne. Stick Shaker and Pusher intermident until loss of control.

Anyone know what the normal wings level stall speed is for a PC-12 in a takeoff configuration and clean?

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news/nstb-pc-12-report-shows-stall/

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Skates97]

4 hours ago, irishpilot said:

Flying Magazine just did a quick article on the initial NTSB findings. I'll pull that report and look at it. Bottom line: plane was left outside in freezing precip, the pilot spent three hours trying to remove it, took off and lasted two minutes airborne. Stick Shaker and Pusher intermident until loss of control.

Anyone know what the normal wings level stall speed is for a PC-12 in a takeoff configuration and clean?

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news/nstb-pc-12-report-shows-stall/

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

There's a 65 page thread with 950+ posts over on BT. Some of the guys over there with extensive experience flying the PC-12 have chimed in. To save sorting through all of it the discussion after the prelim came out begins on page 53.

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=175190&start=780