Be alert at uncontrolled fields

[Ncbosshoss]

I had an experience that scared the living daylights out of me this past week. I was at my local airport, gathering my belongings out of the J and a PA28 taxied by for a departure from the displaced landing threshold for Rwy 21. They are adding an overrun for Rwy 03, so Rwy 21 has a displaced threshold for landing. Full length available for departure. It was a very hot (mid 90's at 1030A) morning. No biggie really but I was thinking why wouldn't you just use the full length. Pilot's perogative.

Here's where I got scared. I was on the wing walk bent over looking into the Mooney and something just told me to watch the Cherokee depart. I turned around as he was powered up and rolling and I instictively scanned the runway (I'm ATC..can't help it) and sure as shine, there was a C172 on a 1/4 mile final, opposite direction, for Rwy 03!! I literally punched 911 into my cell (didn't call) and jumped off the wing and just knew there was going to be a collision. The Cherokee got airborne and the Cessna pulled to the right and stopped. It may not have been as close in reality as it appeared but, it was an incredibly dangerous situation nonetheless. I have no idea which of the two was confused as to where the other one was or if one or the other was not communicating on unicom. It is just a really good reminder to keep your eyes open all the time, especially at an uncontrolled field. It certainly got my heart pumping!

[eldeano]

I had the same experience twice at KPHK and once at TJMZ. It happens when there is no wind or the crosswind is at 90 deg so you can land at either end. At one time at PHK I am ready to take off on rwy 35 when my Monroy ATD-300 alerted me of traffic at 2 o'clock 1nm +200ft. I look up and spotted the traffic on final at the opposite end. At another instance I was ready to taxi into the runway when it alerted me of traffic on base. I was surprised how well the little gadget detected traffic on the ground with a bottom antenna. I probably missed the traffic announcements on the coms when I was listening AWOS. My advice: if having two radios keep one on the unicom freq. all the time and get a Monroy ATD-300.

José

 

[DaV8or]

As of yesterday, it's official. I am moved out of Oakland and into Byron airport (C83). My plane is now just 10 minutes from my house. Much better than the 1:20 it used to be. A fun little airport with cheap gas. Life is good.

However, I will miss the controled airfield at KOAK. I'm now out in wild west country and I will have to keep my eyes extra peeled for exactly the reasons you posted. An uncontrolled airfield is just that, uncontrolled and anything can happen.

[DonMuncy]

I attended a FAAST seminar yesterday where the guy conducting the operation said they did not like the term "uncontrolled field". They prefer to call them "untowered" and to think of them as "pilot controlled". Not a critical distinction, but does point out that we should be careful to help control safety.

Don

[lahso]

Quote: DonMuncy

I attended a FAAST seminar yesterday where the guy conducting the operation said they did not like the term "uncontrolled field". They prefer to call them "untowered" and to think of them as "pilot controlled". Not a critical distinction, but does point out that we should be careful to help control safety.

Don

[Ncbosshoss]

My bad. I forgot to put on my pilot hat. We don't say non towered airports on the air traffic side. It is uncontrolled meaning exactly the same thing as non towered. AOPA doesn't like implying pilots are out of control at non towered fields...oops..there I go again...airports or aerodromes. I can get my head around the concept. If I offended anyone..my apologies!!

[David Mazer]

The other day I flew over a small, fill in the blank, airport with one plane entering downwind, one turning base, one departing and on upwind, and me crossing the airport at 1500 ft AGL mid-field.  Everyone knew where the other was and communication was clear.  Apparently, it can be done.

[Ncbosshoss]

It is fun to watch traffic flow at a busy non-towered airport! You said it with everybody knew what everybody else was doing! This thread veered off the runway for some reason. I was just relaying an experience that may have happened to everybody before but, not me. It is imperative to be alert and paying attention not only to our airplanes but our traffic at  ANY airport, towered or not. Most mid air collisions happen within 5 miles of an airport below 3000 feet. I guess I was stating the obvious from the get go. I am from the south and we do use that phrase a bunch. Ya 'll be careful! Duh!

[201er]

I had the complete opposite experience this on my last flight. I was taking off from a towered airport and they told me to take off from the secondary runway when most of their traffic was landing on the crossing runway. I took off and found myself heading right into an airplane on downwind and had to stop my climb and dive below/around it. Then it happened a second time before the tower even bothered pointing traffic out. I wasn't expecting to be flying straight into other planes on departure and tower was completely useless. I would have rather been at a non-towered airport where I could be communicating with the other pilots directly and each know where the others are. Of course this is why nothing will ever replace see and avoid.

[David Mazer]

I can appreciate your frustration at the towered airport as there is a lot of training activity at my home airport and the students sometimes do strange things but if you listen to tower for a little bit before takeoff, assuming they have only one frequency and you have the time before cleared to take off, you can get something of a mental picture from the tower's instructions to traffic and their response.  There is often a delay in taking off for me so I usually have the time.  Your experience was clearly different.

[201er]

I will admit that my primary training and vast majority of experience is at out of control fields (lol). I have to laugh at the towered airports I go into (never been to a terribly busy one so I can't speak for those) because it will often go something like this "Tower, Cessna 123 downwind 25." "Mooney 345, cleared to land number 2, you have a cessna ahead of you on downwind." Add readbacks and basically the same information is being repeated many times that would just be announced a single time by a pilot at a non-towered airport.

On the other hand, the tower might instruct an inbound aircraft simply to announce itself on downwind, so the fact that it is right in line with departing traffic on the cross runway would go completely unnannounced. At an untowered airport, I'll announce 10 miles out if the freq isn't too busy, possibly give an update 5 miles out, report on 45 for downwind, downwind, base, final, and clear. This keeps people updated because the situation in the pattern when I get there could be completely changed than when I first entered the area of the airport.

But back to the recent experience at a towered airport that I shared. I wasn't thrilled to be taking off on a cross runway but figured tower has their reasons and is on top of where the traffic is that there is a clearing for me to take off through. I don't know if they were expecting me to not be able to climb up to the height of downwind traffic for main runway or if they were out so far that I climbed up to them. But twice I had to take evasive maneuvers in a class D airport without any help from the tower until after the second one. What also did not make any sense to me was that they told me to change frequency before I was even out of their class D airspace. At that point I didn't care/rely on their support one bit and was looking forward to talking to someone with radar. But I don't think it should really be this way.

[rogerl]

It's good to keep in mind that many class d airports do not have radar, and rely upon sharp eyes and maybe binoculars to keep abreast of positions.  It's not unusual for a self reported position to be off significantly, and the guy in the tower thus not even getting timely visual contact.  The KAEG under the mode c veil of KABQ is one such example.

[John Pleisse]

I had this happen to me recently. Ran my 201 off in the weeds at FDK to avoid an AC landing opposite and on the same runway. I had touched down, zero wind and a TBM 700 landed coming right at me. I confronted the pilot once on the ground and then gathered my witnesses. The pilot apologized and said he had the wrong CTAF puched in. I was on the frequencey calling my pattern and I was on the ground first posessing right of way by a wide margin.

These should always be reported to your nearest FISDO. Trust me..they really want these documented and enforced. This incident will be a matter of public record within a month or two. The irony? The TBM 700 pilot was an AOPA Air Safety Foundation Visitor. In know...you gotta be kidding...

[Ncbosshoss]

Very true, rogerl. 201er, not sure why you weren't advised of the traffic you were encountering. On that note, there are no seperation services inside Class D airspace for VFR aircraft. Your point was well taken, though!

 

[scottfromiowa]

A couple of nice flights this weekend.  Flew a short (1 hour) flight form CID to C29 (Morly Field, Middleton, WI) with GPMS.  Uneventful, but a LOT of traffic at Middleton (Non-towered airport) in bound two aircraft including mine.  A helicopter on field preparing to depart.  A cessna in the pattern.  Everything ran smoothly, but you really had head mine and GPMS on a swivel looking for traffic, calling entry to downwind, base final and clearing the active.  I have had an incident (other plane in pattern) that didn't communicate (maybe wrong frequency)...It's very sobering.  We went to Noah's Ark (outdoor water park) in Wisconsin Dells.  If you have kids (ours drove up later/work) and like water, Noah's Ark is a blast.  New ride literally has bottom fall out and you are propelled in a cork screw tube slide.  It was called Scorpion's Tail.  I thought Alien encounter (as it felt like you were having an out of body up to the mothership experience) would have been more appropriate.  Fun?  You betcha.

[Piloto]

If you thought you can avoid a mid-air under ATC control check these videos:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7025897569830845243#

 

 

José

[rob]

Sounds like many of you don't have any experience with NORDO folks in the pattern. Please remember that all the communication in the world doesn't replace keeping your eyes out of the plane and dilligently looking for traffic.

[Shadrach]

I fly out of a Class D drome and I get the sense that we're kind of like a farm team for the big leagues. Because of this, you can somehow hear the inexperience in our controller's voices and see it in thier instruction. Many times I've had tower controllers complicate what 4 pilots could have figured out easily...and with a lot less talk, but you have to start somewhere.

[Piloto]

Quote: rob

Sounds like many of you don't have any experience with NORDO folks in the pattern. Please remember that all the communication in the world doesn't replace keeping your eyes out of the plane and dilligently looking for traffic.

[Ncbosshoss]

<>

As long as they have a transponder...

[DaV8or]

Quote: rob

Sounds like many of you don't have any experience with NORDO folks in the pattern. Please remember that all the communication in the world doesn't replace keeping your eyes out of the plane and dilligently looking for traffic.

[PTK]

Quote: N4352H

I had this happen to me recently. Ran my 201 off in the weeds at FDK to avoid an AC landing opposite and on the same runway. I had touched down, zero wind and a TBM 700 landed coming right at me. I confronted the pilot once on the ground and then gathered my witnesses. The pilot apologized and said he had the wrong CTAF puched in. I was on the frequencey calling my pattern and I was on the ground first posessing right of way by a wide margin.

These should always be reported to your nearest FISDO. Trust me..they really want these documented and enforced. This incident will be a matter of public record within a month or two. The irony? The TBM 700 pilot was an AOPA Air Safety Foundation Visitor. In know...you gotta be kidding...

[Magnum]

Quote: Piloto

...The only way (other tha ATC advisory) you can be aware of non visible traffic is with a TCAS device.

José  

[Shadrach]

Given the choice between seeing and hearing, I'll take seeing every time...

[scottfromiowa]

Both are best...