G5 headache UPDATE 5/20

[Dream to fly]

Morning folks,  I have been trying to calibrate my G5 for installation in the plane and have been getting an error.  I think it is because the panel on my M20F is 12 degrees tilted forward and the plane sits 3.2 degrees nose high on its gear.  When I level the plane I exceed the 15 degree max.  My question is what have you guys done to make the panel sit more vertical and get the radio stack to match.  Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Igor_U]

6 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Morning folks,  I have been trying to calibrate my G5 for installation in the plane and have been getting an error.  I think it is because the panel on my M20F is 12 degrees tilted forward and the plane sits 3.2 degrees nose high on its gear.  When I level the plane I exceed the 15 degree max.  My question is what have you guys done to make the panel sit more vertical and get the radio stack to match.  Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

Did you level the airplane on jacks, as per SM? Can you calibrate G5 that way?

That would bring you panel to 12 degrees. It sounds you left the plane on ground, hence the angle > 15. I'd like to hear more about it as that is probably next thing to install on my next annual.

[Andy95W]

Joe- the way to make the instrument panel vertical is to add 3 supports to push the top rearward.

Hopefully you can see the concept in the 2 photos and my 1 badly drawn figure below.

[Lee Moore]

7 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Morning folks,  I have been trying to calibrate my G5 for installation in the plane and have been getting an error.  I think it is because the panel on my M20F is 12 degrees tilted forward and the plane sits 3.2 degrees nose high on its gear.  When I level the plane I exceed the 15 degree max.  My question is what have you guys done to make the panel sit more vertical and get the radio stack to match.  Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

12 degrees forward (nose low) with a 3.2 degrees nose-high attitude on the gear would equate to an 8.8 degrees nose-low offset.  The procedure has you measure and record the longitudinal offset from waterline level at the aircraft leveling point using a digital level and while the aircraft is on its gear.  I recommend not leveling the aircraft and just follow the procedure in the manual.  If your numbers are accurate, the G5 should calculate an 8.8 degrees nose up pitch offset at the end of its calibration, which you will enter into the formula and the result of the formula should equal 12 degrees (after subtracting your -3.2 from the first step.  E.g. 8.8 - (-3.2) = 12

Cheers,

Lee  

[Dream to fly]

1 hour ago, Igor_U said:

Did you level the airplane on jacks, as per SM? Can you calibrate G5 that way?

That would bring you panel to 12 degrees. It sounds you left the plane on ground, hence the angle > 15. I'd like to hear more about it as that is probably next thing to install on my next annual.

in the install manual it tells you not to level the plane but to use the factory level line to calculate a digital angle and plug the numbers into a formula.   My install was not easy but I was correcting a multitude of former sins.  The typical install I would guess would be 20-30 hours with adding a GMU 11 and a GAD 29

[Dream to fly]

25 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Joe- the way to make the instrument panel vertical is to add 3 supports to push the top rearward.

Hopefully you can see the concept in the 2 photos and my 1 badly drawn figure below.

Ok so I was going to add 3/4in aluminum spacers to the back.  Sweet it is not rocket science. 

[Dream to fly]

24 minutes ago, Lee Moore said:

12 degrees forward (nose low) with a 3.2 degrees nose-high attitude on the gear would equate to an 8.8 degrees nose-low offset.  The procedure has you measure and record the longitudinal offset from waterline level at the aircraft leveling point using a digital level and while the aircraft is on its gear.  I recommend not leveling the aircraft and just follow the procedure in the manual.  If your numbers are accurate, the G5 should calculate an 8.8 degrees nose up pitch offset at the end of its calibration, which you will enter into the formula and the result of the formula should equal 12 degrees (after subtracting your -3.2 from the first step.  E.g. 8.8 - (-3.2) = 12

Cheers,

Lee  

Ok I thought so too.  but when I plug in the numbers and let the G5 do its thing I get error.  I put spacers behind the panel I can get it to work.  That lead me to believe that it was out of range.

[Lee Moore]

12 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

Ok I thought so too.  but when I plug in the numbers and let the G5 do its thing I get error.  I put spacers behind the panel I can get it to work.  That lead me to believe that it was out of range.

The G5 should start its calibration with nothing plugged into the offsets.  You should measure and record the pitch with the digital level.  Write that number down (negative for nose up and positive for nose down).  Then, just run the G5 calibration with zero-ed offsets.  It should count down and then give you some other numbers.  In your case, it should give you a pitch offset of somewhere around 8.8 degrees (if your 12 and 3.2 numbers are accurate).  Write that 8.8 degrees down and then subtract the other number from it.  THAT is the number you input to the G5 for its pitch offset.  Then, you're done.  If you were then to level the airplane on jacks, the G5 should show straight and level. 

 

Cheers,

Lee

[Lee Moore]

The goal of the procedure is to tell you what to put into the pitch and roll offset fields so that the attitude displays straight and level when the aircraft is straight and level.  In order to figure out what the baseline (aircraft at rest on gear) offset should be, the G5 has to start its calibration with zero offsets.  The calibration is simply the unit figuring out how far it deviates from level and displaying a value to represent that deviation.  The technician's job is to subtract the deviation measured with the digital level from the calibrated deviation value provided by the G5 to determine the final offset value for the G5.  I hope I have made this a little clearer.  This procedure is designed specifically to take advantage of the technology to avoid the time and expense of jacking and leveling the aircraft in order to calibrate the AHRS.

Lee 

[Dream to fly]

The goal of the procedure is to tell you what to put into the pitch and roll offset fields so that the attitude displays straight and level when the aircraft is straight and level.  In order to figure out what the baseline (aircraft at rest on gear) offset should be, the G5 has to start its calibration with zero offsets.  The calibration is simply the unit figuring out how far it deviates from level and displaying a value to represent that deviation.  The technician's job is to subtract the deviation measured with the digital level from the calibrated deviation value provided by the G5 to determine the final offset value for the G5.  I hope I have made this a little clearer.  This procedure is designed specifically to take advantage of the technology to avoid the time and expense of jacking and leveling the aircraft in order to calibrate the AHRS.
Lee 

Yup I get it. But Garmin is confused. lol. I must have mis-stepped. I'm going back out Wednesday and trying it again.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[Lee Moore]

On 4/29/2019 at 5:07 PM, Dream to fly said:

Yup I get it. But Garmin is confused. lol. I must have mis-stepped. I'm going back out Wednesday and trying it again.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
 

How’d it go?

 

Lee

[Dream to fly]

How’d it go?
 
Lee

I got swamped with vehicles. I'm going to try again Saturday. I'm still working

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Quick-ish question...

Front to back level we use the seam along the side of the fuselage...

What are we using for side to side level?  (Is there a standard location?)

Best regards,

-a-

[Dream to fly]

Quick-ish question...
Front to back level we use the seam along the side of the fuselage...
What are we using for side to side level?  (Is there a standard location?)
Best regards,
-a-

I'm using the seam and for side to side I'm using the yokes.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[DonMuncy]

I thought you used the seat rails for side to side.

[Dream to fly]

I thought you used the seat rails for side to side.

I guess I could. The yokes are the same distance from the floor. I could still do that

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[ragedracer1977]

17 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I thought you used the seat rails for side to side.

Seat rails are what is called out in the service manual

[Dream to fly]

Morning,  I have a minute for an update and to maybe get this figured out.  I remounted the panel so I have a more vertical stance in level flight.  I actually like it better for visibility.  I did the math and recalibrated the G5s and taxing and ground maneuvers everything seemed good.  So after a very long prayer and triple checking everything I taxied to the active and went for it.  The plane actually took to the sky and everything worked, sort of!  I have a crossed wire on my gear indicator lights and the locked light stay on even when unlocked. I know where that issue is.  BUT the G5s are showing a nose down attitude in level flight.  I keep getting a pitch up indicator. 

My question is if I level the plane and skip the not level calibration the manual goes by and physically level the plane perfectly will the G5s after calibration show level flight?   I am going bat crazy over this and it is driving me nuts. 

THE GREAT NEWS IS THE GYPSY IS AIRBORNE ONCE AGAIN!!

[bradp]

The original methodology in the first versions of the STC installation manual called for the plane to be leveled on the ground using jacks and / or dropping tire pressure in the nose tire and calibrating without offset calculation.  Both methods work equally well.  Your math is somehow off though.  It’s almost like you still have your pitch offset entered from before the panel was leveled in the vertical plane.   Is your panel vertical? A laser guide like you’d use for laying tile and a digital protractor/ angle finder are useful in this business.  Heck a plumb bob would even be your friend here 

[Dream to fly]

1 minute ago, bradp said:

The original methodology in the first versions of the STC installation manual called for the plane to be leveled on the ground using jacks and / or dropping tire pressure in the nose tire and calibrating without offset calculation.  Boat methods work equally well.  Your math is somehow off though.  

I'm sure my math is off but after three tries I am not getting any closer.  it is very frustrating.

[Dream to fly]

So I finally got it done. I'm level.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[jaylw314]

12 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

So I finally got it done. I'm level.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
 

Not to be a smartass, but it looks like you're 90 degrees nose down 

Congratulations!

[Dream to fly]

Not to be a smartass, but it looks like you're 90 degrees nose down 
Congratulations!

Lol. Four different levels say otherwise. I'm just glad it finally calibrated. What a PIA.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[Aerodon]

well done Joe, its been a long slog hasn't it.

Aerodon

[carusoam]

Fixing Joe’s attitude...