G model opinions

[sabwjz]

Hello all.  Just wondering what the general consensus was of the G model.  I know it has the smaller engine with the larger airframe.  Is it underpowered?  What type of numbers could I expect in cruise?  I'm looking at one that is for sale in Georgia.  Is anyone familiar with a MSC or reputable Mooney mechanic in that part of the world available for a prebuy?

 

Thanks

[The-sky-captain]

G's cruise around 135kts (I've read). Mapa has a good write up on their site, on the G, in one of their "Sample log aritcles." Good luck.

[MikeinFL]

I can't comment on the G, but there is a GREAT Mooney guy in Rome Ga

http://www.coleaviation.com/

 

 

[KSMooniac]

I've gotten a ride in a G long ago and thought it was fairly piggish compared the C, E, and F I had previously flown.  I suppose I'd take one over a 172 or something similar, but I really wanted the 200 hp fuel injected engine when it came time to purchase.  YMMV

[N207LS]

I own and fly a 1968 G model.  I have several speed/performance mods (201 windshield, ari cowl mods upper and lower, flap gap & aerlon seals, brake caliper rotation, PowerFlow Tuned Exhaust, Faring mods, and wing mods, basically everything available except inner gear doors, 201 wing tips, and a 1 piece belly (no gear up, so no reason to do it)), so take this into account when I quote performance. 

At sea level and 80 degrees (I fly in Florida), with two big adults, some baggage and full fuel (~50 lbs below gross), I get ~ 800 fpm climb at 25" and 2500 RPM. 

With the same configuration, I can get in and out of a 2000' grass strip in fair condition and trees at the departure end.  I don't like to fly in and out of less than 2000' grass or about 1700' of paved strips at sea level.  The plane will most likely do it, but for my comfort level (after 400 hours in the plane) I adhere to the 1700'/2000' rule. 

At 5000' with no winds 19" Manifold Pressure and 2300 RPM, expect 130 kts and 7.2 GPH (as taken from my EI Fuel Flow Analyzer)

At 5000' with no winds 23" Manifold Pressure and 2300 RPM, expect 145 kts and 9.5 GPH

 

I have 890 lbs of useful load (no useful load benefit for the Powerflow, but I am convinced that the performace gains should warrant some increase in carrying capacity) and hoil 52 gallons of usable fuel.

 

I hope that this is some help.  In my opinion, it is not underpowered and there is not much difference with an O-360 vs an IO-360.  I know that this may be based on the fact that I have the tuned exhaust, but this is the only experience that I have with the G model.  I love mine and would recommend a G to someone else.  I also would recommend my A&P in LaBelle, FL, Vernon Conly.  He is a true professional and has maintained my Mooney for the past three years.  He maintains a handful of vintage Mooneys and is truly knowlegable.  His work phone is 239-872-9687.  I am sure that you could contact him to do your pre-buy and he would be quite fair.  I would absolutely use him if I were to buy any other plane.  Best of luck.

 

Aaron

[Parker_Woodruff]

I also have a G model and like it.  I was a partner in an Executive before owning this one, and was shopping for an F model when I found the "G".  I couldn't resist it because it had lived in the desert its whole life and had no trace of corrosion anywhere.  Mine is less modified that Aaron's, but I do have the Lake Aero Cowling mod, gap seals (both) and some fairing mods.  The numbers that Aaron gives in his post are essentually correct.  I live in an area with high mountains, so I tend to cruise at between 7 and 10 thousand.  Sea level climb is not much different, but the airplane needs to work to get above 10k, which is an essentual difference. at 7000, with 22" and 2400 RPM, I expect to see about 132 knots and only slightly slower at 9000 with 20" and 2500 RPM.  Fuel flow for both settings is about the same at 8.8 GPH.  One other thing, I need to run ROP because the manifold system is not good enough for LOP operation, the spread on the temps is simply too wide.  I don't know if the Powerflow exhaust would help that or not.  Aaron might comment on that if he has tried it.  The trade-off is that I get much easier starting, especially in hot conditions.

I have a full IFR stack including DME, ADF and GPS, so my useful load is slightly lower, but I still can carry four with an hour plus, including a VFR reserve, and with three up and 40 pounds or so of bags I can get a 2.5 hour leg conservatively.  The envelope is amazing, and it is practically impossible to load it too far aft.

I also take some exception to the "piggish" comment.  It "feels" like a Mooney and does have the sloppy control feel of a Cessna or PA-28.  It lands like one too, so you better maintain a little higher proficiency that a driver of those aircraft might require, meaning that speed control is essential.

RFB

 

 

[Guest Anonymous]

I also have a G model and like it.  I was a partner in an Executive before owning this one, and was shopping for an F model when I found the "G".  I couldn't resist it because it had lived in the desert its whole life and had no trace of corrosion anywhere.  Mine is less modified that Aaron's, but I do have the Lake Aero Cowling mod, gap seals (both) and some fairing mods.  The numbers that Aaron gives in his post are essentually correct.  I live in an area with high mountains, so I tend to cruise at between 7 and 10 thousand.  Sea level climb is not much different, but the airplane needs to work to get above 10k, which is an essentual difference.  At 7000, with 22" and 2400 RPM, I expect to see about 132 knots and only slightly slower at 9000 with 20" and 2500 RPM.  Fuel flow for both settings is about the same at 8.8 GPH.  One other thing, I need to run ROP because the manifold system is not good enough for LOP operation, the spread on the temps is simply too wide.  I don't know if the Powerflow exhaust would help that or not.  Aaron might comment on that if he has tried it.  The trade-off is that I get much easier starting, especially in hot conditions.

I have a full IFR stack including DME, ADF and GPS, so my useful load is slightly lower, but I still can carry four with an hour plus, including a VFR reserve, and with three up and 40 pounds or so of bags I can get a 2.5 hour leg conservatively.  The envelope is amazing, and it is practically impossible to load it too far aft.

I also take some exception to the "piggish" comment.  It "feels" like a Mooney and does not have the sloppy control feel of a Cessna or PA-28.  It lands like one too, so you better maintain a little higher proficiency than a driver of those aircraft might require, meaning that speed control is essential.

RFB

p.s.  NOTE:  Not sure how the above post signed as Parker Woodruff happened.  I have sent a notice to the forum host about it.  I tried to delete it, but I can't.  It doesn't give me the option becasue of my identity -- it doesn't think I wrote it.

 

[KSMooniac]

Weird mixup there!

I didn't mean to offend with my "piggish" characterization... SagemGuy is correct that the G will still have the wonderful Mooney handling and feel better than any ol' Cessna or Piper.  They don't have the acceleration and climb that the C does, nor the E/F/J models either.  I bet the Power Flow exhaust does help tremendously, though, in that department.

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Quote: sabwjz

Hello all.  Just wondering what the general consensus was of the G model.  I know it has the smaller engine with the larger airframe.  Is it underpowered?  What type of numbers could I expect in cruise?  I'm looking at one that is for sale in Georgia.  Is anyone familiar with a MSC or reputable Mooney mechanic in that part of the world available for a prebuy?

 

Thanks

[Lood]

Very interresting topic. I just have a question on the speed mods. I'm pretty sure that in the US, these are very much worth it because it is quite affordable - or is it?

I would love to add a few of these to my M20F, but the exchange rate among others makes it impossible to do it. I will be over capatalizing my airplane by a huge margin - way more than it would be worth on any market. In my personal scenario, it is much better to buy a M20J than to try and soup my F model up to compare with the J in terms of speed, for example.

Could this possibly be true in the US as well - modding a certain model Mooney to compare with a more effecient model but in the process spending more money than you would have when buying the better airplane in the first place?

 

[KSMooniac]

.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: Lood

as well - modding a certain model Mooney to compare with a more effecient model but in the process spending more money than you would have when buying the better airplane in the first place?

 

[sabwjz]

Quote: MikeinFL

I can't comment on the G, but there is a GREAT Mooney guy in Rome Ga

http://www.coleaviation.com/

 Well Cole Aviation wants $1700 for a prebuy which I think is just nuts.  Any other suggestions?  Does anyone know of a knowledgable A&P in the Atlanta GA vicinity that would be able to do a good prebuy?

 

Thanks!

 

[Guest Anonymous]

Quote: sabwjz

 

[N207LS]

Personally, I find this post most interesting as it has progressed.  My thoughts have been layed out by several people here.  I wanted to address a couple of comments made earlier. 

First, the IMC part with the o-360 vs the io-360.  I regularly fly in IMC and have experienced carb ice only once in my G model.  It was coming out of KFLL (Fort Lauderdale, FL International) and was 90 degrees out!  At 1000' in solid IMC the engine began to run rough.  I checked my engine monitor and the carb temp was showing 40 degrees F (huh?), but without any other noticable causes, I pulled the carb heat.  Within a minute the engine was running normally and I chalked it up to a good learning experience.  So, yes it can happen even in warm weather (I should say especially). 

Second, as far as the cost of the mods vs. another plane.  I debated this for a couple of months before I did my panel overhaul (530W, 330, EI toys, 496, new fabricated panel, etc = $30k).  The problem was that every plane that I looked at still had something else that I would have to modify (read as spend $$$) and then there was the issue of the big ticket 1st annual blues.  My A&P and I discussed it at length and decided to invest in my pane versus buying another and then still having to spend $$$.  We knew the history of mine (NDH, all logs, only 3 owners since new, low time engine, all of the mods, etc) and I realize that I have no intention to sell it in the forseeable future.  I think if you can say that, then it is best to do the mods on your existing plane before buying another.  If not, the look for another plane, as it will be cheaper to get what you want.

Third, I would call my A&P about your pre-buy and check on a ticket for him to fly from Fort Myers to Atlanta (1.5 hour commercial flight) (and pick him up at the airport).  He difinately knows the G model well (from lots of hours with mine) and he maintains a handful of other vintage Mooneys.  If the ticket was $300 and his work was $600, then you would be $750 ahead.  I do not know what he would charge, but I am sure that it would be much less.  For $1700 I would expect an annual (my annual is $1500 plus extras with him).  In addition, he is the only other person who I have let fly my airplane since I have owned it.

Best of luck.

Aaron