Want to Purchase a J Very Soon

[cb310]

Anyone know of a good 201J not already advertised on Controller, TAP, or ASO?  We've been through all the listings and what's out there ranges from rough to very rough or far overpriced.

Thanks.

[PTK]

When you buy your J you are going to own the legend.  The fastest and most efficient GA aircraft.  One piece of advice: DON'T RUSH.  Look at A LOT of airplanes and look for reasons NOT to buy one or another that you think you like.  Be objective and don't let emotion rush you and cloud your decision making.  Then and only then are you going to recognize and spot the right one. 

 

[LFOD]

Which vintage are you thining of and how much are you looking to spend?

[bgpilot1]

There is a really nice M20J at the West Memphis, AR airport that is for sale but not advertised yet.  It has all the avionics you would ever want.  Owner is upgrading to a 231 bought from another owner at AWM.  My mechanic has maintained both as well as 5 other Mooneys on the field.  PM me and I will email you his info.

Barry

[cb310]

To answer some of the posts.....

While waiting is often a good idea, you never know what life is going to bring.  A few things have happened recently that really make this clear.  Therefore, we are shopping with a sooner is better point of view.

We are pretty open on what we are seeking.  The ideal budget is $90-$115K.  Minor damage is not a problem, nor is having to upgrade avionics.  A complete "project" is not what we want, but we really will consider each airplane on it's own merits.  Our budget seems to fit best with 78-85 models.

Thanks!

Chris Bradshaw

[RJBrown]

I am considering the change to a turbo model. My 1990 MSE could fit you needs.

[Ksaunders]

I'm thinking of becoming a new M20J owner as well.  I finish my IFR next Tuesday and have been buzzing around (Rather Slowly) in a 1974 Cherokee 140 for the last 265 hours of my Private Pilot career.  Was hoping to get a good check list of "Things to Look For When Buying Your First Mooney M20J".  I have done all the reaserch possible but want to turn to the actual owners for as much advice as possible.  Lay it on me...... 

[Gone]

K

First piece of advice is to invest in a good pre-purchase inspection.  Heard two more horror stories from our local Mooney Service Centre today about pulling someone's bacon out of the fire because of the decisions they made before plunking the dough down.

Lots of free advice to be had from all of us (like this piece too) about where to look, what the good deals are, and what options to buy - but not one lick of it will beat what a good MSC will tell you about the airplane, while it still belongs to someone else.

in 2004, I put five Mooneys through pre-purchase inspection across North America for nearly $1,500 all totaled, and not one of them saved me less than $20,000 in heartache, including the one I eventually bought.

Good hunting.

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Hi Chris,

A very close contact of mine does about half of his sales before the aircraft even makes it onto ASO or Controller.  Please give him a call as he talks to a lot of Mooney owners and can probably line you up with a plane that's not on the market.

Tim Lundquist at Strategic Aircraft

612-220-3963

[231Pilot]

Dang Ned!  That's a lot of money to pay after pre-purchase (unless you put it new avionics).  My first Mooney had a pre-purchase and cost me about $7,000 in unexpected expenses, but my second one only cost me for the extras I added (MFD, WSI, JPI ED700, Garmin digital transformer, and GAMI injectors) and a couple of grand for autopilot repair.  I was a lot luckier the second time around.

[Ksaunders]

I have my eye on a few birds posted on Controller.com.  They are at pretty remote locations where I don't have any contacts for pre-purchase inspections.  I guess you just hunt them down, talk to as many as you can and select one you think you can trust and pay them the money.  Maybe as I get closer I'll ask for specific recommendations for people who may be in the area.   

Regarding Tim Lundquist at Strategic Aircraft.....If I buy from a private individual it saves me 6% sales tax in the state of Georgia.  Is Tim a Broker/Dealer or just a good help at finding you the right airplane?

Let's talk 430 vs. 530.  Is it worth the effort to get the 530 over the 430 if available?  I heard some crazy stories about the 530 being somewhat frustrating and cumbersome to use.  Should a guy settle for a 430? 

   

[FlyFstr]

Re: I heard some crazy stories about the 530 being somewhat frustrating and cumbersome to use.  Should a guy settle for a 430? 

The 530 is neither frustrating nor cumbersome. I had both in my airplane and preferred the 530 hands down.

I now fly an airplane with a 430 and it does the job just fine (but I wish it was a 530!). So yes, I would settle for a 430 for sure.

In the FWIW dept, I was flying an airplane that had a GNS 480 and did not like it as much as the 530/430. IMO the GNS 480 was not as intuitive.

 

[Ksaunders]

Good to know.  Always appreciate "user" advice over "seller" advice.  How about the autopilot world.  Any to seek and any to avoid at all costs? 

Can anyone give me some real world owner experience regarding M20J annuals?  What is common and what should my budget be?

Does anyone have any recommendations for annual service in the Atlanta, Ga area??

[Gone]

Dang Ned!  That's a lot of money to pay after pre-purchase (unless you put it new avionics).  My first Mooney had a pre-purchase and cost me about $7,000 in unexpected expenses, but my second one only cost me for the extras I added (MFD, WSI, JPI ED700, Garmin digital transformer, and GAMI injectors) and a couple of grand for autopilot repair.  I was a lot luckier the second time around.

Lew Powell

'82 M20J

N36CE

 

Lew:

You wouldn't believe what my hired shops found.  Longerons rusted on one.  Two prop strikes without the documentation that demonstrated correct tear down, inspection and repair on another.  Holes in places where there should not be holes on a third.  Top overhaul needed on a fourth.  On the one I bought, the unduction tubes joints were sealed with some gunk (supposedly a lazy no-no).  

I still put $21,000 on mine when I bought it, but at least the issues were not airworthiness ones.  And that was my criteria.  They were all improvements, as opposed to repair. 

[KSMooniac]

I have a 530W/430W combo, and I concur that a 530W is definitely worth the premium over the 430W.  You get a more useful "arc view" on the Nav 1 page instead of the regular map, and you get more data field options for display, such as the VOR freq/radial/distance or ILS ID.  I haven't looked at the new GTN boxes since I don't care to upgrade, but I suspect the 750 would be much more useful than the 650 for the same reasons.

For me over 4.5 years of ownership, there isn't such a thing as an "average" annual b/c I'm usually upgrading stuff at the same time.  I've done 3 owner-assist annuals with my free labor (lots of it!) and a few hundred bucks for my IA friend to supervise, and one MSC annual.  I also had an MSC pre-buy before purchase.  If you find the right mechanic, you should be in the $1500-$2000 range for a base annual, including some of the standard consumables like oil, filters, etc. and any parts cost will be above and beyond that.  Throw in some tubes and tires, an instrument repair, new spark plugs, etc. and you can quickly add another 1k or 2k.  It just depends on what kind of shape the plane was in before purchase, and especially how regularly it was flown and maintained.  The biggest potential "gotchas" will be corrosion (ie find it in a pre-buy) and fuel tank integrity.  Worst case, the current costs for a professional strip-n-seal job are in the $8k range for both tanks.  An engine could be a surprise expense too, but mitigated by use and maintenance history to some extent.

[bnicolette]

I don't think a Mooney annual either it be an E,F, J, etc. would be anymore than the other?  Looking back through the invoices on my airplane, the annuals usually ran anywhere from $1800 to $4500 for the last 22 years and that was at an MSC in Daytona.  My current mechanic is becoming inimately acquainted with the airplane as we progress through the year and we are estimating a $1500 annual.  However, I have spent close to 4.5K since I have purchased the plane in February of this year.  I had to replace an attitude indicator $1600 w/labor, new engine rubbers $1000 w/labor, oil change, and some odds & ends, and now an overhauled magneto which will be an additional $1500 w/labor.

I use my airplane for commuting back and forth to work, and family fun.  I fly IMC routinely and like to work the system, in fact, I don't think I ever want to fly point A to B without it.  The fancy avionics are nice, but keep it real for what your going to do with the airplane.  I will never go fly without a 1000' ceiling (I need time to decide where I'm going to go when my engine decides it doesn't want to run anymore), so a GPS approach down to minimums was not part of my criteria.  If you plan on wanting to do GPS approaches, definitely try and find an airplane equipped the way you want it.  Don't live in the fantasy that you will be able to put that equipment in and get your money back out of it!!  I have a KNS 80 Rnav so therefore I can legally file direct within 200 nm and get it most times even on the east coast.  The fanciest thing I have is a handheld 396 which is panel mounted and also use an iPad for charts & maps(Jepps and NOS).

Good luck!

[FlyFstr]

Regarding the 530 vs 430 - You can also download the software and try both. Here's the link:

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3532

 

[Ksaunders]

You all give some great advice and it is truly appreciated.  I have searched all over and the M20J compliments my mission the best.  Thank you. 

[Jeff_S]

Dang, KSaunders from Dawsonville GA! When I logged into MooneySpace today I thought I was in a time warp. All those photos of a Cherokee on the front page made me think I was back in the Piper Owners' Society forum where I used to hang out.

Having moved up to the J from a Warrior, I can tell you it will be a welcome change. Good luck with your hunt. I've seen some nice J's on Controller lately, and one Ovation that just popped up that made me really seriously think about an upgrade. Seems well-equipped and owner has just dropped the price to $169,000...I think it was '91 model.

[dcrogers11]

As an owner of a C model (who sometimes wishes it were a J) I can give my opinion with regards to your choice of models.  As I am finding out, the 201 mods that I want to add to my vintage bird along with the avionics upgrades and new AP would have just about brought my investment close to a newer J with decent avionics.  As a previous Cherokee 180 owner, I still love the speed and fuel efficiency of my plane compared to my time in a Piper, but hindsight now tells me that I will eventually want to move up to a J or newer.  Keep shopping and be patient, the perfect J for you is out there.  

 

[Cris]

That $169K Ovation mentioned by Jeff_S is actually a mid time 2001 Platinum Edition which had the balanced Continental engine plus other goodies.  And- the owner wants it sold within 30 days so maybe a bit more price reduction is in store! With downward price pressure in the market like this I would well imagine there will be some follow on price drops for the J's so I agree just be patient & the right plane will come to you. 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Typically if you buy from Tim, you are buying the aircraft from the individual.  He is merely the seller's agent in trying to find a buyer.

[flyboy0681]

KSAUNDERS

Let's talk 430 vs. 530.  Is it worth the effort to get the 530 over the 430 if available?  I heard some crazy stories about the 530 being somewhat frustrating and cumbersome to use.  Should a guy settle for a 430? 

 

My advise, find a good solid plane with old radios and install at GTN 650 or 750. You won't be sorry.

[dcrogers11]

I failed to mention, that if you do find the right J, but it is lacking in the avionics department.  My AI shop has just quoted a new 430W for $7000 and $1500 to install.  Not a bad price from what I have seen in the past.  

[Ksaunders]

Always "Pimping" the Cherokee every chance I can get.  Classic example of a bird I brough home and with lots of TLC made her into a nice little hour builder.  I did a good IFR upgrade on the plane and next Tuesday I take my check ride and hopefully will join the ranks of the IFR pilots.  I have the word out to sell the Cherokee knowing full well I won't get a penny back that I put into her but it's not worth the worry. 

Really excited looking at the M20J.  Won't rush in but wow they are nice!  I have my eye on N1141K in NY on Controller.  I understand it is originally from Georgia.  Trying to track down some previous owners to see if there is anything hiding in that airplane closet.  Thanks for all the help and advice.