New Panel

[DXB]

How did you get the G5 approved as a backup AI since it's not in the STC?  I'm seeing a number of them posted now as used for this purpose, with some folks getting field approvals - am curious to hear your experience.  

[82Mike]

9 hours ago, DXB said:

How did you get the G5 approved as a backup AI since it's not in the STC?  I'm seeing a number of them posted now as used for this purpose, with some folks getting field approvals - am curious to hear your experience.  

The G5 is technically primary.  It has a back up battery (4 hour).  Then the Aspen (also with back up battery) is my back up. There is a whole post on here about it.  337 takes care of it.

[Cruiser]

Interesting question.......

The Aspen STC makes the Evolution 1000 PFD the primary attitude indicator and the original AI becomes the backup per the STC in accordance with 14CFR 23.1311

The Garimin G5 STC makes it the primary attitude indicator per the AML list. 

My guess is you would have to replace the original AI with the Garmin G5 first using the Garmin STC, then install the Aspen per their STC to make it primary and the G5 would become the backup.

On second thought, I can't see this working either since it would violate the install limitations of both Aspen and Garmin's STC requirements. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Cruiser
review of STC limitations

[DXB]

4 hours ago, 82Mike said:

The G5 is technically primary.  It has a back up battery (4 hour).  Then the Aspen (also with back up battery) is my back up. There is a whole post on here about it.  337 takes care of it.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the only Aspen version certified for use as a backup AI sans a vac system? https://aspenavionics.com/products/evolution-backup-display  But this version doesn't support the autopilot/ FD functions, so I don't know that it would be an adequate substitute for the EFD Pro for many folks. I may still be missing something here.

[Marauder]

Interesting question.......
The Aspen STC makes the Evolution 1000 PFD the primary attitude indicator and the original AI becomes the backup per the STC in accordance with 14CFR 23.1311
The Garimin G5 STC makes it the primary attitude indicator per the AML list. 
My guess is you would have to replace the original AI with the Garmin G5 first using the Garmin STC, then install the Aspen per their STC to make it primary and the G5 would become the backup.
On second thought, I can't see this working either since it would violate the install limitations of both Aspen and Garmin's STC requirements. 

Personally, I think all of this has entered into a gray zone and I wouldn’t be posting anything about this unless I was certain how the FAA views this.

What we do know is that Garmin’s own Trek Lawler was on this site and said the G5 cannot be used as a backup to any glass panel system in a certified airplane (Aspen or G500). The Aspen and G500 both require a backup AI to be installed in the plane. Since the G5 cannot function as that, is the Aspen or G500 legal to be installed in the plane as a secondary AI. I think someone would need to read through the fine print of the legal documentation for them to determine this.

I was under the impression that the Aspen needs to be considered primary and as such, only a mechanical or electrical AI or an approved glass equivalent (like the L-3 ESI-500) could meet this requirement.


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[82Mike]

This subject has been beaten to death.  Done sorry.  There is nothing wrong with the way it was done and my shop has not done this as a first time.  So I guessing Best to ask your own shop?

[MIm20c]

@82Mike Did you get AOA or SV?  I’m thinking about adding a sonalert for the altitude/min alerts as I don’t have a altitude pre select.

[82Mike]

I have both AOA and SV,  the Aspen has an altitude alert “alarm”.  I am hoping someday to have a Garmin GNX 500 AP so that would be alititude preselect for me?

[Marauder]

This subject has been beaten to death.  Done sorry.  There is nothing wrong with the way it was done and my shop has not done this as a first time.  So I guessing Best to ask your own shop?

Sorry I drove the thorn into this topic. I did a lot of due diligence into this subject when I was looking to remove my vacuum system and the solution I ended up with what was supported by the FSDO my upgrade was done under. The G5 was not allowed as an option.

I’ve been through this FSDO approval process before and I know there a degree of subjectivity with FSDOs. What may be okay with one isn’t with another. And my firsthand experience with this was a removal of an “approved” item that one FSDO did a field approval on and another asked to have removed during an upgrade in their region. Short of getting into a urination contest with them, I complied.

I agree that asking the installing shop what they can get approved is the best way to protect yourself.


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[Marauder]

[mention=12133]82Mike[/mention] Did you get AOA or SV?  I’m thinking about adding a sonalert for the altitude/min alerts as I don’t have a altitude pre select.

I had a Sonalert on my Aspen for altitude awareness. The alert wasn’t wired into the audio panel and sometimes it was hard to hear. If you go this route, check out the Mallory site for the different tones that are available. They have them posted as audio files on their site.

Depending on what else you have in the plane, you can install an EI AV-17. It ports the tone through the audio panel and will give other indications from your engine analyzer.


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[DXB]

11 hours ago, 82Mike said:

This subject has been beaten to death.  Done sorry.  There is nothing wrong with the way it was done and my shop has not done this as a first time.  So I guessing Best to ask your own shop?

Sorry - no intent to criticize you or your shop- they obviously do beautiful work. I was just looking to understand their regulatory logic fully, as I would like to do a similar G5 install eventually on top of my Aspen pfd. I’ve found one shop that won’t do it and another that has done several without a field approval- but I haven’t heard a clear argument from the latter shop as to its legality.  Yet clearly many folks are installing a similar configuration as yours, so the interpretation of the regs that supports it will hopefully become the prevailing one.