Can It Be Done?

[Yetti]

Looking good.   

 

Oh and it not in the AC about building a burn box.   It is in here.  http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/ar00-12.pdf

and the proper test methods.

[Hank]

5 hours ago, cliffy said:

Here's a picture of the finished panel installed to check color and texture in place

The panel looks great! But I'm confused, your door handle points down instead of up . . .

Gotta love aerobatic flight! The photo is correct on my phone, until I attached it . . .

[cliffy]

Well yes it is!   Only because I hadn't finished installing it or the strap pull handle before I took the picture. :-) :-)

Now a couple of observations-

While it can be done on a home sewing machine the one issue I have is stitch spacing on the running seam in the vinyl. With a normal presser foot machine the stitches do tend to bunch a little so their spacing varies along the seam. Even with practice bunching still appears as the presser foot tries to pull 2 or 3 layers through the machine. 

I am now going to try a lower end walking foot machine just to see how much difference that makes in the looks of the seam.  

The seams made by the normal presser foot machine are quite sturdy and would in all respects hold together for the life of the panel without any problem. I do like the seams on the tweed material as the stitches being close together seem to disappear into the fabric and all you see if the "pillow" effect. 

I'm going to continue with all the interior panels after the new machine arrives. It seems that the effort to make these side panels is pretty easy overall. It does take a little practice and attention but it can be done. The seats will be another interesting journey. I have been studying a couple of auto upholstery how to books and a few videos so my education is continuing while await the new machine. 

 

[cliffy]

Thought I'd supply a side by side comparison 

[cliffy]

Doing some more research tonight and I find that the tweed material I have meets NFPA 260 (National Fire Protection Association) for fire resistance and the vinyl meets the FMVSS 302 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard).

Therefore they meet the AC 43.13 requirements to meet "some national standard" for CAR-3 airplanes without further treatment. 

[Browncbr1]

8 hours ago, cliffy said:

Doing some more research tonight and I find that the tweed material I have meets NFPA 260 (National Fire Protection Association) for fire resistance and the vinyl meets the FMVSS 302 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard).

Therefore they meet the AC 43.13 requirements to meet "some national standard" for CAR-3 airplanes without further treatment. 

Can you post a link to these materials ?  

[cliffy]

What do you mean "link"?  Manufacturer name, etc?

[cliffy]

Fabric is Duramax and the vinyl is Longitude

[Browncbr1]

On 2/13/2017 at 10:30 PM, cliffy said:

Fabric is Duramax and the vinyl is Longitude

Thanks, I had originally thought my 67F was type certificated as Part23 because it was introduced after 1965, but I just looked to make sure and found this from the TCDS file from Mooney.. 

Certification Basis:  Model M20F CAR 3 effective November 1, 1949, as amended to May 18, 1954, with paragraphs 3.109, 3.112, 3.115, 3.118, and 3.120 of CAR 3 effective May 15, 1956, as amended to October 1, 1959.

 

[cliffy]

YUP CAR-3

 I just got delivery of a cheap Chinese walking foot sewing machine that I'm going to try and see how it works. Lubed it and ran it and it seems OK. Test pieces to sew tonight. I'll post pictures and thoughts later 

If I do nothing more than just the sidewalls and baggage area I'll save over $1,000. 

 

[bradp]

Cliffs what brand of cheap walking foot machine do you have? I bought an antique singer from the 1930s and it's a boss. The only thing it lacks is a waking foot, which id find useful for leather or other heavy materials.


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[KSMooniac]

I'm going to do my seats later this year. I lucked into a surplus Durkopp Adler walking foot machine from Beechcraft surplus last summer that I'm looking forward to running.

Keep going and posting pics!

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[LOCOLJ]

Great pics, I just finished my back seat, and learned quite a bit through the process.  I had no experience sewing, so I took an upholstery class at a jr college prior to my project.  It was an eye opening experience to see the detail that is required to get things to look professional ( still not there yet).  A couple of takeaways from my experience 1) Plan on the acceptable product the result of the second try 2) A walking foot machine is the way to go.  There are portables that do a pretty good job 3) Use 1/4 scrim foam under the final upholstery as much a possible as it hides foam inconsistencies, and pulls things tight. 4) plan on repairing the seats both of mine we trashed the thin aluminum doesn't hold up well.  

[cliffy]

LOCOLJ- yours doesn't look bad at all!

I have enough material to do a few do overs if needed. :-)

I found a generic copy of a Sailrite walking foot machine. Mine has a name of -of -of -get this-

 "PORTABLE WALKING FOOT"  Boy I'll bet they worked on that one a long time.

There are many out there that mimic the Sailrite for $250 to $400. I/m not expecting gold plated tooling here, just something that will work for the short term as an experiment. I had to redrill one mounting hole for the motor so it would sit level with the hand wheel shaft.

It did come with a test piece of leather under the foot hooked to the bobbin thread showing it does work before shipping. There is a mod on a Sailrite to replace the boss around the stitch length lever with a plate that allows a positive setting for length but I cam mimic that by drilling a couple of holes in the installed plate and putting a nail through the holes to position the lever where I want and still use the reverse easily to lock the stitching.  

[Yetti]

18 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

Thanks, I had originally thought my 67F was type certificated as Part23 because it was introduced after 1965, but I just looked to make sure and found this from the TCDS file from Mooney.. 

Certification Basis:  Model M20F CAR 3 effective November 1, 1949, as amended to May 18, 1954, with paragraphs 3.109, 3.112, 3.115, 3.118, and 3.120 of CAR 3 effective May 15, 1956, as amended to October 1, 1959.

 

If you read the AC on materials and Burn testing it would have you believe that even though CAR is out there that everything should be tested to Part 23 standards.  We all know that AC are not regulatory and that mentality would change lots of other things about the older planes.   You would think the FAA would fix things the legal way if that's the way they wanted it done.

[Yetti]

Looking good on those panels.    I was about 30 minutes late on 3 walking foot industrial machines at one estate sale.    I looked into the Portable walking foots almost went that route when the old White machine machine was found.   Still need to find a project for the Singer 404 slant foot to see how it does. for $10 how could I say no.

[cliffy]

$10 bucks was a good find even to just have it "in case". 

 

[LOCOLJ]

 Cliffy,

Sailrite are really nice machines.  I bought the consew 206r, and would have prefered an industrial one, but didn't have space for a full table.  One thing I found helpful was to buy pre wound bobbins, they are much easier than having to stop and wind one in the middle of a long run.  Also, always put a new bobbin in before doing a french seam, you don't want to run out during such a visual seam after you went through the process of glueing, measuring, cutting, sewing only to screw the decorative piece at the end (Don't ask how I know this).  Estate sales are great places to find nice industrial machines, and typically the older machines last forever, kinda like mooneys.

[Yetti]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

$10 bucks was a good find even to just have it "in case". 

 

You never know when a wild hare will come along and bust out a cover for the plane

[cliffy]

I haven't graduated to a two top stitch french fell seam yet but I do a respectable flat fell. 

Like I said mine is a clone Sailrite. A Chinese Special. I found the hand wheel was drilled very slightly of axis but it isn't too much of a bother. I sew slow so the wobble (very very slight) isn't really noticeable. Still running practice pieces  and getting used to it. 

At first glance now it seems that it will do just fine for this project. Might not want it for a full production shop but for what little I intend to do, I think it will work out fine. 

Maybe I'll drop a picture or two in tomorrow. 

[carusoam]

You guys with machine skills are really rockin' tonight!

One part artist, one part machinist, one part mooney pilot!

Send more photos!

Thanks for sharing.

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

Here's the walking foot machine I picked up. It's a Chinese cheapo but after a little tune up it seems to work OK. Had to give it a good lube and adjust the presser tension but other than that and the hole I drilled for the motor angle all seems well for a cheapie.  

I've been running test pieces and have found that with the longer stitches control of the stitch line is harder as it moves faster. Foot pedal control is a steep gradient from slow to full ahead. May try making a hard stop at the correct speed position on the foot feed.

Tried doing the tweed stitches with the # 69 thread and the walking foot but have found I like the old Singer stitching with lighter tread on that better. I'll wind up using both machines for this project.  

The chrome lever on the right is fwd/rev and its in the reverse position. Stitches get longer the higher the lever is moved. With no hard stop, duplicating stitch length is a best guess situation. here's where I might drill holes thru both bosses and push a nail through for a hard stop going up.

More practice tomorrow. 

[Yetti]

The sewing cabinet for the White Machine had the foot control mounted on the side of the cabinet with a large metal piece for a knee control.   I also raised the cabinet up off the floor about 3 inches to help my Yetti size frame work with it.   I liked the knee control, way easier than a foot control.  I don't think our feet were designed for precision.  At least not my Yetti sized 16s.

[LANCECASPER]

On 2/5/2017 at 1:56 PM, Bob_Belville said:

 

Bob I'm a little disappointed, with that beautiful interior you need to get that tow bar powder coated  : )

[Bob_Belville]

3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Bob I'm a little disappointed, with that beautiful interior you need to get that tow bar powder coated  : )

Lance, you're so right. That's an old pic and the tow bar is a smart shiny black now.