Mooneymite Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) When I checked Airnav.com, I found this: omments from AirNav users Mather Jet Center has requested that AirNav not collect or publish user comments. For any feedback or customer service inquiries, please contact Mather Jet Center directly. **** I have found in the past that this is a red-flag for bad FBOs. If an FBO has to suppress comments, there's a reason why. Generally I call ahead and inquire about fees, but some of these FBOs won't tell you the whole truth...as in, "You asked about our $15 ramp fee, the additional $20 is a ramp security feee. If you'd asked, we coud have told you." Notice that the other FBO as well as the FBO MCC at also supress comments. Probably not because of "great service" Good FBOs welcome the good comments and reply politely to the bad ones but they don't suppress comments. Please, everyone....use the comment section of Airnav (when possible) to advise others of the good, the bad, and the ugly FBOs. Edited November 23, 2016 by Mooneymite 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Foreflight has a great comment section too. I've had a great experiance with SAC jet at SMF. Stayed there for a week earlier this year. They did exactly what I needed them to do. The staff was really helpful, and I'm told the owner is a great guy. Same owner as the other SAC jets I believe. Yes, the 20 bucks puts a bad taste in the mouth. But, I'd rather support aviation and keep flying than worry about 20 bucks. I've been burned by $50 ramp fees at large FBO's but at the end of the day I did exactly what I needed to do, and drove less. Thanks for the post, -Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 With so many airports under threat of closure and many even closing, I can understand the need for additional sources of income, even if I don't like it. I think the frustration many of us have is inconsistent charges and not knowing where the money goes, and I suspect that is the OPs question. unfortunately, many of the fees are hidden in tax lingo. I think we can all understand an airport infrastructure fee and even an FBO infrastructure fee if we use the facilities. Just saying "you owe $20" and not knowing why or what it's for can feel like extortion or highway (airport) robbery. I don't know why FBO management can't train their folks to explain the fees. Regarding paying our taxes, many municipalities use the tax money to invest in the airport, but do so because they expect a return on investment. Very few do it for our convenience or recreation. This may have been a little different a few years ago when one of the FAAs edicts was to promote aviation. That is no longer the case. Locally, many of the NY airports have taken to billing you the fee in the mail. Talk about a surprise. You don't even recall the trip and get a bill, no chance to talk about it. i don't like the fees, but I want the airports available. i think the best advice is what many have said. Call ahead and ask about fees. Specifically ask about what it takes to wave the fee. Fuel purchase usually takes care of it. While the fuel may be more expensive, I'd rather fly away with something more than a hole in my pocket. Many airports also wave the fee for charity flights and some will wave it if you are doing a quick turn....but usually you need to negotiate that with the management. The line guys and counter folks are just doing what they have been told to do....manners are often the parents fault and harder to work with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 If you think fees are high for us Mooney drivers, try flying a jet where a 5 minute drop off can cost $600. At least the cookies are tasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Not sure the ramp guy was even collecting for the FBO was he doing his job as required by the airport. You also mentioned you were picking up a part that was delivered to the FBO which had to be received by someone working there and someone had to determine the disposition of the delivery and then an employee was nice enough to walk the item out to you personally. Sounds like you did receive some value there. Not being a fly on the propeller I can't comment on the conversation with the ramp guy perhaps he could have been more specific or polite but then maybe he was doing that but you were not receiving it that way. Granted I don't have near the experience as most of you but we have never had a bad FBO experience in fact they are one of the last places that still provide real customer service. I remember one trip where the line guy literally placed a small red carpet under the wing walk before my wife stepped off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 For such "stop and go" business, I have on two occasions called a non-FBO business on the airport and explained my desire to avoid the FBO for a quick stop. In both cases, they have welcomed me and agreed that the FBO manager is an airport embarrassment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 It's irrelevant if the business incurred no incremental cost by you showing up on their ramp. It's theft if you try and ditch without paying your fee.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, gsengle said: It's theft if you try and ditch without paying your fee. .......Assuming the business has properly posted the fee. No one likes being ambushed by secret fees that one has no way of knowing about until a pickup truck is parked in front of your prop. There is an obligation on both sides of the prop. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Isn't the proper method of protest today, tacitly approved by the sitting President's silence the last several years, to show up at night with a bunch of friends, throw things, break stuff and start a fire? I'd rather have online comments not suspended, read pireps and have people on the phone not obfuscate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Did he call in advance??? I've never seen FBO fees posted on the ramp...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, gsengle said: Did he call in advance??? I've never seen FBO fees posted on the ramp... Unless you're in a bar (where it is bad form to ask about prices) generally the onus is on the merchant to post prices. I have contacted the folks at Airnav about posting prices. Their represetative said Airnav would love to, but many FBOs resist. What's that tell you about "open and honest"? The only dark side of posted fees is that it limits the ability to reduce/waive the fee if they like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 I generally don't see prices posted on ramp. Maybe ever. You have to go inside or call. This is normal. I've flown into many class C airports, nothing here sounds unusual. I don't know if this is a good reason to be critical of an FBO Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 daver some pilots are cheap, How many of us give generous tips for services, like pumping gas, helping with our bags,pulling the car up etc.? Wouldn't it better if all the fee were posted in a clearly visible area of the FBO. Many of the airports we stop at appear to have no fees, many have a flow charge, I know of one that has .50 cents per gallon charge for the FBO.now thats a fee were not complaining about, I take 90 gal. in my Bravo $ 45.00 hidden fee, plus the ramp fee, these should be clearly identified for our use in determining where we choose to fly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, Danb said: these should be clearly identified for our use in determining where we choose to fly. time for the PBOR ver 3.0 $20 isn't even a half hour of fuel. I wouldn't get too worked up over a kid making $10 an hour doing what he's told. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 good job daver, I didn't insinuate you didn't merely asking how many of us do. peevee I don't get worked up re: fees, merely stating if fees were recognizable the pilots who don't want to pay could go elsewhere. being in business these fob's provide a needed service of which if used we should pay our fair share. the next fee I complain about on this forum will be the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Always call ahead. Get the number off of AirNav, call them, tell them what you want to do, and ask them what fees you'll have to pay. I was doing an Angel Flight with a pick up at GEG. I called and asked about fees. They were going to charge me a fee even though I was an Angel Flight. Fortunately, SFF was more convenient for the passenger so we switched to SFF (not fees, cheaper gas, and Phillips 66 to boot). Always ask. I want to keep FBO's in business, but I don't need someone to marshal me to my parking spot, a big fancy building with new furniture and two pretty girls sitting behind the counter. Those kinds of places are more for the jet set. I just want gas, a restroom, and preferably a mechanic on the field in case I break. Anything else is a bonus. But if I have to pay a fee to land at the most convenient airport, so be it. It's just another part of the planning equation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said: I want to keep FBO's in business, but I don't need someone to marshal me to my parking spot, a big fancy building with new furniture and two pretty girls sitting behind the counter. Those kinds of places are more for the jet set. I just want gas, a restroom, and preferably a mechanic on the field in case I break. Anything else is a bonus. But if I have to pay a fee to land at the most convenient airport, so be it. It's just another part of the planning equation. It's hard to plan when the fees aren't disclosed. It would be especially annoying to call ahead asking about fees and find more fees than were mentioned on the bill when you show up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 It's hard to plan when the fees aren't disclosed. It would be especially annoying to call ahead asking about fees and find more fees than were mentioned on the bill when you show up! I have never once had an FBO charge me more than quoted in advance on the phone, and I'm not hearing that this was the case here. If an FBO is shady then call em out, but otherwise...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, gsengle said: I have never once had an FBO charge me more than quoted in advance on the phone, and I'm not hearing that this was the case here. If an FBO is shady then call em out, but otherwise... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I miss the posts having numbers for reference! Scroll to the top of the page, and read the second post by Gus, where he discusses being given the fee he asked about on the phone, with no mention of a secondary fee almost equal to the first. Dishonesty should not be rewarded! Often there is no one at the FBO to complain to except the counter person and the line boy, neither of them can do anything and shouldn't bear the brunt of their boss's stupidity . . . This hasn't happened to me yet, but boy would I be unhappy. And boy, would people around me know it! Most likely for several days . . . Edited November 23, 2016 by Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 So again did the original poster call ahead? If people have been hit by bad FBOs then ding them. I'm asking about the one in this original post.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, gsengle said: So again did the original poster call ahead? If people have been hit by bad FBOs then ding them. I'm asking about the one in this original post. Certainly calling ahead is a "workaround", but why do we have to do that? An open and honest business posts prices.....except at the afore mentioned bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Where else would you want to see them posted before you arrive??? Giant letters from the air? If you're concerned about fees call ahead. That's not a workaround, now you're reaching.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Give it up, Gus. His mind is made up, the way it works now where you find out all of the fees after they've been incurred, is just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 I've been to over 650 different airports over the last 10 years (yep, I counted them). Many FBOs post their fees, a few do not. Giant letters in the air would be nice, but posting them on Airnav would cost them NOTHING. There does seem to be a trend: the higher and more unreasonable the fees, the harder it is to find out what they are. Ramp/service fees began inching up during the great recession when flying dropped off the charts. The FBO's just weren't selling enough fuel to keep the lights on. As flying increases, I'm hoping these ramp fees will ameliorate. We need these FBOs and they need us, but we need to know what we're getting into when we land somewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, Hank said: Give it up, Gus. His mind is made up, the way it works now where you find out all of the fees after they've been incurred, is just fine. Sage advice, Hank. Sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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