L3 9000+ or Garmin GTX-345?????

[Bart Chilcott]

So given that I already have active traffic (TCAS) with the Avidyne TAS605 that is displayed on my Aspens with voice warnings, would the L3 option be redundant?  Like I mentioned, I won't give up my current active traffic system after I become ADSB complaint. 

Given the fact that the L3 plays well with the Aspens, it still may be a better choice than the 345 but thinking forward, and knowing I my someday change out the 430W for a gtn650 or 750, keeping things standardized might be in my best interest.  

Your thoughts?

Bart

 

[StevenL757]

Just now, Marauder said:

I know we never did get a chance to meet up to see your 9000+ in action. I did however blame you when I signed up to have one installed. It went something like this "Honey, Steven is an airline pilot and he thinks the 9000+ is the way to go"

What actually sold it was giving my wife the iPad 3 with Garmin Pilot running and showing her how much traffic was missed with the GDL-39. Flying VFR down the corridor between Philly and Washington headed towards Ocean City Maryland on a nice summer morning can sell thousands of ADS-B solutions.
 

 

Agree, and we do need to meet up at some point.  That's a perfect way to frame up a conversation like that, and wish I could've been a fly on the wall when that conversation took place.  As a friend of mine with Lufthansa noted to his wife when attempting to justify a new piece of hardware..."It's for da' safety".

:-)

[Marauder]

So given that I already have active traffic (TCAS) with the Avidyne TAS605 that is displayed on my Aspens with voice warnings, would the L3 option be redundant?  Like I mentioned, I won't give up my current active traffic system after I become ADSB complaint. 
Given the fact that the L3 plays well with the Aspens, it still may be a better choice than the 345 but thinking forward, and knowing I my someday change out the 430W for a gtn650 or 750, keeping things standardized might be in my best interest.  
Your thoughts?
Bart
 

Bart - what you will need to decide is how you will meet the ADS-B out requirement. Both the RTX and L-3 (plain vanilla 9000) will meet the ADS-B requirement. It may be overkill since you already have active traffic and weather from XM. A simpler solution like a FreeFlight or L-3 2500 may meet your needs. Even simpler is a used Garmin 330 ES transponder.

If you intend to fly in ADS-B mandated areas, the "out" is all you need. If you do opt for an in/out ADS-B solution, there are cheaper solutions than the RTX or L-3 9000.


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[gsengle]

So given that I already have active traffic (TCAS) with the Avidyne TAS605 that is displayed on my Aspens with voice warnings, would the L3 option be redundant?  Like I mentioned, I won't give up my current active traffic system after I become ADSB complaint. 
Given the fact that the L3 plays well with the Aspens, it still may be a better choice than the 345 but thinking forward, and knowing I my someday change out the 430W for a gtn650 or 750, keeping things standardized might be in my best interest.  
Your thoughts?
Bart
 

Having the active traffic integrated with ADSB is awesome. The track vector alone is worth it....


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[Bart Chilcott]

3 hours ago, gsengle said:

 

Having the active traffic integrated with ADSB is awesome. The track vector alone is worth it....


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I guess my point was I already have active traffic that shows tracking vectors.  I'm just trying to avoid a lot of duplication. 

[Marauder]

On 10/6/2016 at 9:02 PM, Marauder said:

Well, I have reach the ADS-B chasm and am about to jump in. I have been going back and forth on the ADS-B solutions and have narrowed down my selection to two contenders. I would really want honest feedback on these solutions. There is a big dollar difference in the installed prices and I want to make an informed choice. My challenge is where the GTX-345 is today with Aspen. So, here is what I am looking at;

Garmin 345 with a Flightstream 510. Why? The 345 will display weather and traffic now on my GTN. The avionics shop is telling me that the 345 AHRS will in the near future be able to feed AHRS through the 510 to feed an iPad app. Downside -- the 345 does not display anything on the Aspen at this point. And when it does, it will probably require a $800 unlock key from Aspen. The 510 will allow me to update flight plans using my Garmin Pilot app. I can also update the GTN without removing the 510.

L3 9000+ with a Flightstream 210. Why? The 9000 will immediately feed my Aspen traffic and weather without an unlock code on the MFD. It will also show traffic on my GTN but not weather. With the Flightstream 210, I can obtain AHRS to my Garmin Pilot and will be able to upload my flight plans to the GTN. It also has the ability to show active traffic -- and this is where I struggle. Active traffic will be a real benefit until December 31, 2019. After which, if most planes are flying behind an ADS-B solution, I will not need as much active traffic capability. I will get 3 years of benefit and perhaps a little more flying to areas where ADSB is not required.

Thoughts? Am I missing anything?

Thought it would be a good time to provide an update on the direction I took on ADS-B. I went back and forth on the Garmin and L-3 offerings. It was a tough decision especially since Garmin & Aspen finally completed the unlocking of the GTX-345 on the Aspens.

My final decision was based on integration, capability and redundancy. As an Aspen 2000 owner, I wanted something that would work seamlessly with the Aspens, had additional capabilities and offered a level of redundancy. I opted to go the L-3 9000+ route because I knew the 9000+ is completely supported by L-3 and Aspen. In addition, the 9000+ has its own display and provides redundancy. Another factor that weighed heavily was the integration of active traffic on the L-3 system. Having flown a bit recently in an ADS-B compliant plane, I am convinced that even after the mandate deadline date comes, there will be a number of planes still operating with Mode C only. Since ADS-B will identify them, you may think that this may be a minor concern. It is -- when they are picked up by radar. Having flown in an ADS-B equipped plane, we just didn't pick up some mode C planes when they were in the traffic pattern of some airports. I also noted on every flight when full TIS-B became active. It was between 900' and 2000'. 

Aspen's software update to support the L-3 unit included additional features that the Garmin integration didn't. As well, L-3 was offering the ATAS (voice announcement for traffic and terrain) for just attending a seminar. It also takes advantage of my WX-500 and will display this on the L-3.

What are the downsides? The L-3 will not currently display weather on the GTN 650/750. Also, currently the 9000+ will display traffic and weather on a number of EFB apps but will not with Garmin Pilot. Since I am a Garmin Pilot user and will have a FlightStream 510 in the GTN, I will need decide how best to proceed. 

Once everything is buttoned up, I will post pictures of the completed panel. For now, just the carnage...

Before carnage:

Week 1

Week 2 (why does it look worse than week 1?)

[tigers2007]

I just cant stomach the cost of the NY164 SkyWatch antenna. My installer said he was okay with me buying a used one ($600-900 vs $2000). Im strongly considering buying a used one and having it installed. Then wait for the day L3 offers a free or deeply discounted "unlock" for attending a seminar or fly-in. Isn't it like 1.8AMU for the software unlock to activate the Active traffic?


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[Marauder]

I just cant stomach the cost of the NY164 SkyWatch antenna. My installer said he was okay with me buying a used one ($600-900 vs $2000). Im strongly considering buying a used one and having it installed. Then wait for the day L3 offers a free or deeply discounted "unlock" for attending a seminar or fly-in. Isn't it like 1.8AMU for the software unlock to activate the Active traffic?

 

 

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I am not sure they will ever offer the "unlock" for their hardware. The ATAS is a software/firmware solution that they have been providing (retail value is $675). Cheaper than giving away hardware.

 

The local shops are getting $6500 to $7000 for the non-GPS GTX-345 installations. The 9000+ is $10,000 with the antenna including installation. A lot of money either way.

 

Based on Don Kaye's comments, I looked into the Garmin TAS 800 which would be its direct competitor. In order to get to the same configuration as the L-3, it would be close to $15k (need the 345 and the TAS 800).

 

I can't wait to try it out!

 

 

 

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[gsxrpilot]

Don't let @Marauder fool you. He's completely run out of upgrades for his panel but needed some reason to tear into it again...   The L3 was the best excuse he could find.

[flight2000]

Wow, it's amazing the mess we have behind our panels these days.... 

Cheers,

Brian

[Northern Mooniac]

I just wanted to say thanks guys for being the guinea pigs here lol.

I'm getting my aspen 1000 pro installed as I type this along with a flight stream 210 for my gns430w.

I have a gtx327 right now and sitting on the same fence as alot of other foreflight/gpilot users.

here's my preference. I'm in canada so it's a bit different as we don't have asdb..yet.

Aspen: Active Traffic and WX500 (ADSB Traffic and Weather when i'm south)

GNS430W: WX500 and ADS-B Traffic

iPad: Active Traffic, XM Weather (Via SXAR1), ADSB Weather and ADSB Traffic

In reality i'm going to do most of my weather checking on the ipad because it's a large screen and easy to move around, i'll also do more of my traffic checking on there too, however in a climb, or approach I want traffic on the aspen, I don't think I really care what even shows up on the 430.

 

Enroute you are doing to do more checking on the ipad than anything else and it will show everything.

Jeez, I think I just talked myself into a lynx! oops.

 

[carusoam]

On 4/17/2017 at 10:35 PM, Marauder said:

 

Simulated IMC for Mooney pilots.

C&P pilots use hoods and foggles.  It's just not the same...  

Best regrads,

-a-

Edited April 19, 2017 by carusoam

[Marauder]

Simulated IMC for Mooney pilots.
C&P pilots use hoods and foggles.  It's just not the same...  
Best regrads,
-a-

Your internet observations skills remain up their with Clarence's.


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[mike_elliott]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 0:36 AM, Marauder said:

 

I am not sure they will ever offer the "unlock" for their hardware. The ATAS is a software/firmware solution that they have been providing (retail value is $675). Cheaper than giving away hardware.

 

The local shops are getting $6500 to $7000 for the non-GPS GTX-345 installations. The 9000+ is $10,000 with the antenna including installation. A lot of money either way.

 

Based on Don Kaye's comments, I looked into the Garmin TAS 800 which would be its direct competitor. In order to get to the same configuration as the L-3, it would be close to $15k (need the 345 and the TAS 800).

 

I can't wait to try it out!

 

 

 

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Prior to plunking down an additional 2 k installed for the FS510, you might buy into the rumor that L3 is going to make that wifi router (NGT9000) capable of accepting "in" from IPAD apps and squirt them to other devices via their rs232, ARNIC channels via another software unlock....just a rumor...

[Marauder]

Prior to plunking down an additional 2 k installed for the FS510, you might buy into the rumor that L3 is going to make that wifi router (NGT9000) capable of accepting "in" from IPAD apps and squirt them to other devices via their rs232, ARNIC channels via another software unlock....just a rumor...

Pretty funny Mike. And you think Garmin will play nice in all this? I will move ahead with the 510 and if L-3 does come up with a solution, one of you will be getting a great deal on a 510.


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[mike_elliott]

Think IDF440 update while the 430W still has some life and resale/trade in value. OH wait, FS510 is now useless...oh well.

[Marauder]

Starting to look like a panel again.





So for the mystery.

Has anyone ever heard of a panel being doubled up? The shop is rebuilding my panels and they showed me that my left side panel was actually two panels on top of each other. Anyone ever seen this before?



Also, got to see a Piper Turbo Arrow in for some autopilot work. Nice panel, done by the same shop doing mine.




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[StevenL757]

Looking good sir. :-)

Except.......wait.......That large rectangular hole looks a bit narrow for a G500.

(couldn't resist)

Seriously, looking really great.  Hang in there...

[tigers2007]

Marauder I want a full PIREP of the SkyWatch feature, please. I couldn't stomach the 3AMU upgrade as my transmission just went out in my diesel truck. The SkyWatch might be a must-have for me as I'm technically out of the low-altitude coverage zone in NE upper-Michigan. Apparently the SkyWest CRJ's don't have ADS-B? I never see them. With my Stratux I typically only see big jets 30,000' higher than me. Hopefully my panel with GTN and Lynx will be done in about ten days or so.


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