Hoping to buy a Mooney

[AndyFromCB]

So let me get this straight, you can only afford a $50K aircraft, but you find KMDW reasonable? Maybe you should double check with Signature again about their pricing, ever since the third, smaller FBO went away (forgot their name, they were great), Midway is not remotely affordable to anyone but the jet set crowd. $9 dollar fuel, $75 handling fee, $50 a night in tie down (don't even bother to ask about a hangar), and some made up security fee. And quite frankly, they don't really want you there. You're eating up valuable space and time. Skip Midway, land at Gary, take the train and with the money you'll save, buy a Bravo or Ovation with TKS. If that plane is there for 10 nights a month, that's $500, let's say you buy another 50 gallons of fuel per month at $4 premium, that's $200 a month, add $300 worth of fees, and you have a grand a month. That goes a long way towards a 15 year note on a nice Bravo or Ovation.

Edited August 31, 2016 by AndyFromCB

[Mooneymite]

5 minutes ago, AndyFromCB said:

So let me get this straight, you can only afford a $50K aircraft, but you find KMDW reasonable? Maybe you should double check with Signature again about their pricing, ever since the third, smaller FBO went away (forgot their name, they were great), Midway is not remotely affordable to anyone but the jet set crowd. $9 dollar fuel, $75 handling fee, $50 a night in tie down (don't even bother to ask about a hangar), and some made up security fee. And quite frankly, they don't really want you there. You're eating up valuable space and time. Skip Midway, land at Gary, take the train and with the money you'll save, buy a Bravo or Ovation with TKS. If that plane is there for 10 nights a month, that's $500, let's say you buy another 50 gallons of fuel per month at $4 premium, that's $200 a month, add $300 worth of fees, and you have a grand a month. That goes a long way towards a 15 year note on a nice Bravo or Ovation.

Well......you know that the Southwest pilots have a new tentative contract agreement.  Upon implementation (if they vote it in), Southwest pilots will be issued their own money printing presses and Signature charges will not matter at all.  

Perhaps Stetson20 will be looking for a TBM instead of a plain-jane Mooney.

[Stetson20]

30 minutes ago, AndyFromCB said:

So let me get this straight, you can only afford a $50K aircraft, but you find KMDW reasonable? Maybe you should double check with Signature again about their pricing, ever since the third, smaller FBO went away (forgot their name, they were great), Midway is not remotely affordable to anyone but the jet set crowd. $9 dollar fuel, $75 handling fee, $50 a night in tie down (don't even bother to ask about a hangar), and some made up security fee. And quite frankly, they don't really want you there. You're eating up valuable space and time. Skip Midway, land at Gary, take the train and with the money you'll save, buy a Bravo or Ovation with TKS. If that plane is there for 10 nights a month, that's $500, let's say you buy another 50 gallons of fuel per month at $4 premium, that's $200 a month, add $300 worth of fees, and you have a grand a month. That goes a long way towards a 15 year note on a nice Bravo or Ovation.

Maybe I can afford more  Also, my brother is a couple blocks from Griffith, IN. That's probably a 30 min drive to the employee lot at MDW. I buy a beater airport car and I'm good to go! 

[Stetson20]

On August 30, 2016 at 4:18 PM, mooniac15u said:

Y70 seems like a nice little airport. There were a couple other Mooneys on the ramp the last time I was there. 

Drooling over all 3 of these planes!

[Stetson20]

20 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Well......you know that the Southwest pilots have a new tentative contract agreement.  Upon implementation (if they vote it in), Southwest pilots will be issued their own money printing presses and Signature charges will not matter at all.  

Perhaps Stetson20 will be looking for a TBM instead of a plain-jane Mooney.

I won't lie. The new pay scales- when ratified- have bearing on my decision to buy a plane. More important, no- MOST importantly; my wife is 100% on board. She knows how long I've wanted to take the plunge. Finally financially where I can do it without hardship.

[Mooneymite]

Just now, Stetson20 said:

 Finally financially where I can do it without hardship.

Talk to us in a year.  

[Stetson20]

14 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Talk to us in a year.  

...without UNDUE hardship?  

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Talk to us in a year.  

Gus, he said he's "financially ready" to "buy" a plane. While he's looking,me can investigate the poorly-defined costs of "owning" a plane. My cost if ownership? In the last nine years, I've been too afraid to add it up. If you do,maned it by PM some won't accidentally read it and scare myself! 

[Guitarmaster]

5 minutes ago, AndyFromCB said: So let me get this straight, you can only afford a $50K aircraft, but you find KMDW reasonable? Maybe you should double check with Signature again about their pricing, ever since the third, smaller FBO went away (forgot their name, they were great), Midway is not remotely affordable to anyone but the jet set crowd. $9 dollar fuel, $75 handling fee, $50 a night in tie down (don't even bother to ask about a hangar), and some made up security fee. And quite frankly, they don't really want you there. You're eating up valuable space and time. Skip Midway, land at Gary, take the train and with the money you'll save, buy a Bravo or Ovation with TKS. If that plane is there for 10 nights a month, that's $500, let's say you buy another 50 gallons of fuel per month at $4 premium, that's $200 a month, add $300 worth of fees, and you have a grand a month. That goes a long way towards a 15 year note on a nice Bravo or Ovation.

Well......you know that the Southwest pilots have a new tentative contract agreement.  Upon implementation (if they vote it in), Southwest pilots will be issued their own money printing presses and Signature charges will not matter at all.  

Perhaps Stetson20 will be looking for a TBM instead of a plain-jane Mooney.

Wait... What... Huh??? I get a money printing press? SWEET!!! TBM900 here I come!!!

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[Guitarmaster]

If you do go to KMDW, Signature hates us, but Atlantic treats you very well!

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[Mooneymite]

34 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

If you do go to KMDW, Signature hates us, but Atlantic treats you very well!

In my limited experience, regardless of location, Signature hates anything that doesn't need at least 500 gallons of Jet-A.

Afterall, they have to pay for those cookies somehow.    But Atlantic isn't much better and it doesn't give you cookies.

Since Signature is buying up/taking over virtually all the other FBO's, it poses a threat to us single engine recip guys at least as severe as the dreaded user fees.  Even some of the independents are taking note of their modus operandi and squeezing us out with high fees and high fuel.  I was going to go to ILM the other day, but found out 3 nights would cost me $60.  ILM is now served by only one FBO.

Maybe we should all become more familiar with landing on grass fields?  

[kelty]

S 20,

Welcome.  I just bought my J model a few weeks ago.  Initially my budget was set at no more than $50k as well.  Ended up buying my plane for $62k.  I figured it was better to spend more money now, especially while it was being financed, rather than spend the money in a few years to do all the upgrades to an older plane.  I'll let you know how the first annual goes though.  

GO NAVY...BEAT ARMY.

Fellow Navy pilot here.

Kelty

[Andy95W]

9 hours ago, kelty said:

GO NAVY...BEAT ARMY.

Damn Squids.  Go Army.

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, N1395W said:

Damn Squids.  Go Army.

Hell with you both. Dad's whirlybirds all said "MARINES" on the rear fuselage!

[Stetson20]

On September 1, 2016 at 11:43 AM, kelty said:

S 20,

Welcome.  I just bought my J model a few weeks ago.  Initially my budget was set at no more than $50k as well.  Ended up buying my plane for $62k.  I figured it was better to spend more money now, especially while it was being financed, rather than spend the money in a few years to do all the upgrades to an older plane.  I'll let you know how the first annual goes though.  

GO NAVY...BEAT ARMY.

Fellow Navy pilot here.

Kelty

Pics? Any tips regarding your buying experience? 

Congratulations! 

[gsxrpilot]

I recently sold a C that was probably just what you're looking for. My younger brother is a Southwest Captain out of Denver and was a partner with me in the Mooney. He was very comfortable flying it hard IFR compared to the 73's he normally flies.

I was right where you are a couple of years ago with the same budget and requirements. I wanted an E but was very happy to have a C with a much better panel, low time engine, all the speed mods, paint and interior. Look at the C, E, and F. But pick the one with the best panel/engine/upgrades.

[Stetson20]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I recently sold a C that was probably just what you're looking for. My younger brother is a Southwest Captain out of Denver and was a partner with me in the Mooney. He was very comfortable flying it hard IFR compared to the 73's he normally flies.

I was right where you are a couple of years ago with the same budget and requirements. I wanted an E but was very happy to have a C with a much better panel, low time engine, all the speed mods, paint and interior. Look at the C, E, and F. But pick the one with the best panel/engine/upgrades.

Paul, 

Good info. Yes, exactly what I'd like to find. The search continues!

Roy

[kelty]

19 hours ago, Stetson20 said:

Pics? Any tips regarding your buying experience? 

Congratulations! 

I would say the biggest thing is to make sure you have a pre buy inspection done.  Also having everything in writing with the seller is a good idea.  My seller and I made a written pre purchase agreement as well as the purchase agreement.  Let me know if you want a copy of what we drew up.

Kelty 

[JKSmith]

On August 30, 2016 at 5:09 PM, glafaille said:

Start your search NOW.  Finding a nice $50,000 Mooney is like looking for Unicorns!  You hear about them but they are rarely seen and can only be found in very remote places far removed from airlne service.  However, if you are willing to overlook missing logbooks, decades old overhauls, questionable maintenance histories and shotgun panels you will have much better luck.  

Much easier to find a unicorn if you have an airplane to use to hunt the critters down.  The market seems to dry up when the wind blows cold.  Early to mid summer seems to be the best time for hunting.

Lots of friendly folks here to help and they usually have great advice.  Keep your powder dry and gun at the ready position.

I have a unicorn, bought my "F" for $35000 and it has a 300 hour factory re man engine and the airframe has 2,400 hours on it. Only down side is that it sat for 2 years before I moved the mice out. 

[JKSmith]

21 hours ago, Stetson20 said:

Pics? Any tips regarding your buying experience? 

Congratulations! 

I know you didn't ask for my experience but I'm pretty green in terms of buying and owning so I may be some help as well. My bird is a 74 m20F that was practically a barn find, but since I knew the owner well (father in law) I was permitted to pull it out and run it up occasionally. Finally it hit the market and I caved in and bought it. 

A mooney (or any aircraft) with well written and complete logs are worth there weight in gold, and a very thorough pre buy with a oil test is well worth the money as well. A good pre buy and oil test is variable between $800-$1,200  

7122V is currently in annual and One thing I would do over again is that I would let a mechanic perform the pre buy that isn't going to ever see my plane again. the reason being is that the pre buy was 6 months ago and we are finding things wrong with it that should have been obviously seen during pre buy, not saying anything bad about my A&P cause I like the guy and he's given me great useful cost effective advice, but it makes me wonder. I will use them again tho because he's very very thorough and hopefully the next annual if done by him will be easier on my wallet next year, and he actually likes mooneys.

if I were to buy another, I would pay more for one for one that's ads-b ready and has pretty good avionics no older than 430's with waas because I'm looking at atleast 15k worth of avionics upgrades in the next 5 years. 

I wouldn't worry about paint, that is the cheapest upgrade you can do if corrosion isn't a issue and I personally think you can get your money back on paint before you will anything else. 

Fly one with a Johnson bar and hydraulic flaps, I started out in a G with them and I enjoyed it, kinda made it look like I really had to work and freaked people out haha   But I do enjoy and would not be scared of the Johnson bar. 

 

[glafaille]

JK:

Nice plane!  A lucky find indeed.  

I think the easiest way to find a nice plane is very much like finding love.  The harder you look the harder it is to find.  It usually comes along when you least expect it and not really interested in finding it.

Some of us are a bit more lucky than others.

[tigers2007]

Guys I'm a long time lurker here and I couldn't hold back...

I mailed a check on Friday for a '64 based out FNT. No documented damage history and has full logs (those seem to be a rare combo for the cheap cheap ones...). The bird was priced appropriate for the vintage model and run-out engine (about 70hrs over). The nearby MSC prebuy reported good and bad news; small crack in the rear spar due to a flap contacting a runway light like 20+ year ago (repairable with M20-SB217 kit), sloppy gear and cracked gear donuts, worn push rod end links/joints that have slop, and moderate corrosion under the rear seat area due to moisture from a crappy vent tube. The good news is that the 3-blade prop is damn near new, the motor has excellent compression's, already has newer bladders, and the paint/interior and clean. The plane has been club owned for 46 years and is otherwise in great shape with an IFR enroute/approach certified GNC300XL along with modern Garmin radio and transponder. Heck, even the Century IIb works great. I'm paying less than twenty for this bird but obviously I'll be paying several AMU's to get it up to snuff. All in all, it needs $10k in work; half of it needs to be done immediately and the other half can be done at the next annual or two but are not critical.  Then I need to add the cost of the pre-buy/annual (0.8++ AMU's), cost of an Insight G1 with carb temp sensor (1.8AMU installed?), and shoulder harnesses (1 AMU?).  Oh did I mention that the motor is past TBO? The active member of the owner group seems to be very maintenance savvy and has been flying this plane regularly for well over a decade - probably explains the excellent condition of the motor and rest of the plane.  I think I stumbled upon a very nice bird for a reasonable price.  I am not getting a free lunch here though. After you factor in the cost of an overhaul (Penn Yan $19.5k to $22.5) or Lycoming ($23k/26k overhaul/rebuilt), I'm right back up to your (and my) $50k goal. But I'm buying a bird that was never a true abandoned hanger queen and I am able to choose what toys to add and what and where to get things refurbished - having things done my way.

My search took about a year of perusing and number crunching. Thankfully I found this one before you did!  Keep searching and take your time. Do a prebuy using an experienced Mooney A&P -- they seem to know where to look for oddball anomalies (i.e. "Gotchas!") that most A&P's would never find. Hell, the MSC A&P/IA even made it clear that other surprises may still lurk after he pulls the gear apart...  Thankfully I'm a former owner of a flying wreck so I'll be mentally prepared.

[JKSmith]

8 hours ago, glafaille said:

JK:

Nice plane!  A lucky find indeed.  

I think the easiest way to find a nice plane is very much like finding love.  The harder you look the harder it is to find.  It usually comes along when you least expect it and not really interested in finding it.

Some of us are a bit more lucky than others.

When I started my aviation venture I was never interested in a mooney at all, some would say I was totally against owning one. Cessna really had a grip on me and I wanted a 180 tail dragger like it was a cure to a disease. 7122V to me was like finding a dog at a homeless shelter, I really wanted a dog but not this particular one. Anyway now that she is mine I doubt I ever own a Cessna, the flight clubs j-3 scratches that itch when it comes along. When people meet me and ask me what aircraft I prefer I will preach about mooney aircraft until my face turns blue. 

[Stetson20]

8 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

Guys I'm a long time lurker here and I couldn't hold back...

I mailed a check on Friday for a '64 based out FNT. No documented damage history and has full logs (those seem to be a rare combo for the cheap cheap ones...). The bird was priced appropriate for the vintage model and run-out engine (about 70hrs over). The nearby MSC prebuy reported good and bad news; small crack in the rear spar due to a flap contacting a runway light like 20+ year ago (repairable with M20-SB217 kit), sloppy gear and cracked gear donuts, worn push rod end links/joints that have slop, and moderate corrosion under the rear seat area due to moisture from a crappy vent tube. The good news is that the 3-blade prop is damn near new, the motor has excellent compression's, already has newer bladders, and the paint/interior and clean. The plane has been club owned for 46 years and is otherwise in great shape with an IFR enroute/approach certified GNC300XL along with modern Garmin radio and transponder. Heck, even the Century IIb works great. I'm paying less than twenty for this bird but obviously I'll be paying several AMU's to get it up to snuff. All in all, it needs $10k in work; half of it needs to be done immediately and the other half can be done at the next annual or two but are not critical.  Then I need to add the cost of the pre-buy/annual (0.8++ AMU's), cost of an Insight G1 with carb temp sensor (1.8AMU installed?), and shoulder harnesses (1 AMU?).  Oh did I mention that the motor is past TBO? The active member of the owner group seems to be very maintenance savvy and has been flying this plane regularly for well over a decade - probably explains the excellent condition of the motor and rest of the plane.  I think I stumbled upon a very nice bird for a reasonable price.  I am not getting a free lunch here though. After you factor in the cost of an overhaul (Penn Yan $19.5k to $22.5) or Lycoming ($23k/26k overhaul/rebuilt), I'm right back up to your (and my) $50k goal. But I'm buying a bird that was never a true abandoned hanger queen and I am able to choose what toys to add and what and where to get things refurbished - having things done my way.

My search took about a year of perusing and number crunching. Thankfully I found this one before you did!  Keep searching and take your time. Do a prebuy using an experienced Mooney A&P -- they seem to know where to look for oddball anomalies (i.e. "Gotchas!") that most A&P's would never find. Hell, the MSC A&P/IA even made it clear that other surprises may still lurk after he pulls the gear apart...  Thankfully I'm a former owner of a flying wreck so I'll be mentally prepared.

Tigers,

Where in northern MI? Congrats and, as usual, post pics! 

Roy

 

[wrench]

On 8/31/2016 at 6:45 PM, Stetson20 said:

Drooling over all 3 of these planes!

That's a nice picture of my J in the middle.