Instrument Training Methods?

[74657]

Just got signed off to fly solo in the Mooney.  I have ~170 hours total time.  I would like to start my instrument training this winter and would like to have it done by April/May.  My wife and another couple are planning a trip to Florida and would like to fly ourselves down.  It would be nice to have my IR to get above and around weather "just in case".  Thoughts on getting to that point?

I have had some dialogue with PIC and am kicking the idea around of doing (2) 4 day sessions where one of their CFII's will fly here and do the training on my schedule.  It is expensive.....

I have 2 local guys that are both CFII's.  One of them (guy who checked me out for my HP/Complex) recommended getting comfortable with the plane (obvious), spending some time with him or the other CFII but do a majority of the work with a 10 day type course.

One thing that has me concerned with PIC is that they recommended that I take the written "just to pass the test" and not study the books so much because most of my learning will be done with the instructor.

Thoughts?

Tonight I looked into getting a "package" deal from Sporty's with the DVD/Book combo.

I know I need to fly more in the Mooney in good weather before I get into IFR flying with it.  While I am not 100% confident in my abilities to fly the plane like I was in my Tiger, I am 10X more confident in the Mooney being a better IFR platform to work with.  Night and day difference in the stability of the 2 planes. 

Thanks guys.

[rbridges]

I don't think the written test will be a big deal.  If it's anything like the private pilot test, they use the same questions over and over. 

I've only done a few hours of ground school and a few hours of IR with my CFII, and the books make more sense once you start going through the maneuvers.

[aerobat95]

I think you are on the right track with the Sportys DVD/Book combo.  I am going to offer you my opinion on the training PIC provides.  I personally like the idea of flying with the local guys better.  Getting a instrument rating in 10 days while completely legal is just to fast in my opinion.  The benifit to flying with a local guy is that it will take a bit longer and you will be exposed to a wider variety of flight conditions and you will be given a greater amount of time to study and really absorb the information.  This is crucial.  Flying with foggles or whatever sight limiting device is not quite the same as flying in actual conditions, and I would stress towards the later part of your training to shoot some approaches in actual instrument conditions.  Remember this, the majority of GA accidents or fatalities typically occur in IFR conditions.  It is crucial that you take your time learning.  The other thing you mentioned is that you have two CFII's in your area.  If you could fly with both of them that would be another benifit as a good portion of flying is technique.  I do commend you on your persuit to furthing your knowledge of aviation.  Learning to fly on instruments will make you a better pilot and a safer one.  Good luck and if you have any questions dont hesitate to ask.

-Ray

[Jeff_S]

I used the Sporty's system for my ground training for IFR and it was quite good. The material is well-represented, it's fun to hear Richard Collins' take on the realities of light-aircraft IFR flying, and the practice test system they have is excellent. I only missed on question on my written.

And while opinions do vary, I agree that taking some more time to practice the flight portion in different conditions, and letting it all absorb more slowly, will not only make you more confident in IFR but will also set the material more permanently in your brain. The short course can definitely get you to the point of passing the test, and if you're going to subsequently fly a lot of IFR "in the system" to reinforce that training then it's a good way to go. But if you're like most GA pilots who want the rating to become a better pilot, but don't really expect to fly a lot of IFR, then the longer training approach will yield more long-term benefit and retention of the material.

[jax88]

The FDE for my PPL had an interesting opinion on getting an instrument rating immediately after finishing the PPL training.  Just because I can fulfill the requirements for an instrument rating DOESN'T mean I should be flying in IMC.  He suggested getting 400-500 hours of becoming more precise, honing my cockpit management skills, and learning to cope with unexpected situations in VMC before launching into adverse weather conditions.

[thinwing]

I used the 10day pic course.I would recomend it precisely because it is total immersion training.I can gurantee it will be the most challenging rating you will earn.The problem with using the local cfii is that if they are also time building for another flying job,they frequently get hired and move on leaving you with having to find another instructor.The instrument rating ,I found,developed and used skills that are very perishable.Even 1 week between lessons and you will lose your scan.Getting it done in just 10days is a real drag..especially if you have to work ...better if you can take 10 days off,...you will have to put your instructor up in a hotel room,..more cost...and dont even think of putting him up at your house cause you will develop a real love/hate relationship...so all and all the local cfi prob more relaxing but I would bet you dont have your ticket ao your time table...good luck and remember the instrument is just a license to learn...kpc

[hansel]

My instrument training was with PIC in my Mooney. I agree with thinwing-- with an intense course you will focus on nothing else except your IFR training, and that can work to your advantage. And you're probably more likely to get the rating in the first place (you pay the money upfront with PIC, and there are fewer reasons to drop out... although, be forewarned, by day four you will want to drop out... the love/hate relationship with your instructor is an understatement). Chances are good that you'll run into some crappy weather during those 10 days if you're training in the winter, so you're likely to get some actual IMC (and then your instructor will make you do countless approaches in that IMC all day long). Either way, after you get the rating, just file IFR all the time and take every chance to fly the system the way it was designed. No matter how you train, the first time you enter IMC by yourself you will be terrified and then rewarded-- best to do it as soon after you get the rating as possible. As for the written exam, just study the test bank like others suggest and pass the exam before you start flight training. There's really no time for it once you've started PIC. Good luck!  

[ReggieM]

I did mine recently with AFIT.  I only needed a 5 day finish-up course.  I fell into the same situation as what others have mentioned:  A bunch of CFII's, a couple of states, and still no IR.  I finally got tired and called PIC and AFIT.  I thougth PIC was way too pushy.  AFIT was good, but in hindsight, I would have much rather found a qualified instructor and did 5 or 10 days local to them.  I was exhausted after the 5 days.  My instructor was a good guy, but 40 hours with the same person was too much.  I don't even get that much time with my wife in a week.  Not sure if I could have lasted 10 days.  Also, one thing they don't advertise is the washout rate.  They may guarantee the rating, but that's usually with a couple of more days of instruction for free.  One thing I can say for accelerated courses is that I did get the rating and it's finally over.  That was my main goal when I finally bit the bullet.  So, I guess it all depends on how patient you are in getting the rating.

- Reg

 

[Hank]

I used a local CFII. Started just after July 4th, with a goal of around Labor Day. Then came a three-week annual [parts on order], then two weeks for IFR certification [sent out the AI and ALT for rebuild, one at a time, after replacing all hoses & fittings from the static ports], then we had "smoke in the cockpit" when I turned on the panel lights just after engine start [that was something on the annunciator light circuit board, not enough of it left to identify; time to source & replace, 3 months . . .].

With a "quick course," I would have been out a lot of money.

Taking the slow route, I flew in lots of varying weather through three seasons, and the many, many repetitions firmly beat the procedures into my head. Keeping them fresh in my mind, and being able to keep up when doing multiple practice approaches, though, is a whole 'nother ball game. Be sharp on aircraft control, too, and not just approaches.

My first "real" IFR flight went well. My wife stayed quiet to let me concentrate, and I did a lot of that. Summer thunderstorms in the Deep South are easier to dodge when ATC lets you climb out of the soup to your planned altitude. But you have to be prepared--I spent almost an hour bumping along in the featureless grey before hitting an updraft; the block clearance let me glimpse blue, and ATC finally approved my climb with the warning that I would need to deviate for Charlotte even though I would pass well outside their Class B. The 10º deviation was much less than several of my "intense precipitation" deviations had been, and I could see the buildups instead of having to guess at their location.

Not quite the way I had planned to introduce myself to "real" IFR flight, but you get what is served. At least I occasionally flew between clouds and could see what I was about to penetrate. Being above it all was much, much nicer!

[Earl]

I was in almost the same situation when I bought my Mooney.  I had a little over 200 hours and wanted to be able to fly reliably on business so I needed an IFR rating.  I looked at all the options and decided to go the PIC 10-day course route. The main reason is I knew unless I took a week off from work I would spend 2 years and would spend a lot of time relearning what I learned two weeks ago rather than moving onto the next subject.

It was total immersion and in my opinion the best way to go, especially if you have time constraints.  The CFII I worked with really knew his stuff and was very demanding and the course is very well organized and logical.  What you do one day builds on the work the next day.  What you have to be prepared for is the mental challenge of 10 days straight.  You also need to understand that sometime during the course you will hit a wall where you don't think you are improving and won't make it through the course.  I think my only criticism is their simulators are very old and don't simulate very well current equipment capabilities.  But they are fine for shooting ILS, VOR, NDB approaches.

The other comment I would make is you should hope that during the course you do something really stupid.  Something so stupid if you did it on your own you would be the subject of an NTSB investigation.  I did that at one point in my training and the CFII was so pleased he could barely stand it.  He told me that if I had gone through the course with no stupid, life-threatening move that I would be much less safe.  I never forgot that experience and it convinced me to be ever vigilant and anal-retentive when it comes to SPIFR.

[eaglebkh]

Looks like there is a good balance of votes between normal vs. accelerated training.  I did the training at my home airport over a 4-month period.  Going 2-3 times per week really minimizes the amount of re-learning, yet I felt fresh for each lesson.

You need to determine if you can handle the total immersion of the accelerated courses.  I can't - I have to switch gears and do something else after a few hours of the same thing.  Plus, I like to spend lots of time studying before the lesson and reviewing after the lesson.

I did have the same instructor the entire time, though, as mine was not seeking out a higher rating.  This really helps.

Good luck!

[carusoam]

"Looks like there is a good balance of votes between normal vs. accelerated training"- Brandon

Between the two options of local vs. accelerated is a method used by American Flyers....

Consider the fire hose method... as much as you can take, for as long as you can take it, with the flexibility of taking a break for a couple of days or a week to attend to other business or holidays.

They use several instructors interchangably, or just one if you like the slower "local" option.  Their syllabus is solid and clearly recorded at the end of each lesson.

I used this organization an finished in about 6 weeks time with a week off for Christmas.  A few hours a day after work.  Several hours on the weekend.  I really enjoyed seeing how different instructors approached the same issues. (Do you use rudder only and waggle down the ILS? - some do)

You will see the different approaches from each CFII, and it is good.  Rememeber you are not learning to fly, your PIC of your ship, and you will benefit by the slightly different approaches and techniques.

I am sure there are other suppliers of this similar method.  I considered the accelerated approach, but I travel for business and could not spend so much vacation time on this.  I also benefitted by stretching it out.  I went 12 years without an instrument rating and I did not need one in the next 10 days...

Enjoy the training, you get to fly with purpose.  Spreading it out should help you with the retention also.

If you need/want the ticket in 10 days,  As a Mooney pilot, you are already a driven individual, and I am sure it will work for you.

$.02 delivered....

-a-

[N33GG]

Nothing wrong with PIC, and nothing wrong with local CFII's.  Any way you get there, you still have pass the practical exam.  Either way you get the ticket, you will have the essential skills to start learning real instrument flying.

But I urge you to take it easy for a while after you get the instrument rating.  Nothing can replace time and experience when it comes to dealing with all of the things that can and will happen when you start flying instuments. 

I remember being caught in many situations that tested me when I was beginning with my new ticket.  (Many years ago, by the way.)  After explaining myself to a gray haired mentor with thousands of hours, he would smile and say:  "You just let your lack of skill and experience catch up with you."  I had the ratings, but he was right.

The last thing you need is the added pressure of a spouse and perhaps guests along for the ride when you are learning and cultivating your skills and experience level.  Remember JFK Jr. 

Good luck and congratulations on being another pilot coming down the path!