Mexico (flight plan question)

[craftyboy]

I know most folks file a DVFR flight plan when crossing to/from mexico. I also know that IFR is an option too. Anyone know if I need to file an international ICAO IFR flight plan or can I use the regular domestic IFR filing as found on the duat.com portal?

 

I'm departing mexico VFR from Chihuahua city airport. My desire is to call FSS 10 miles before crossing the ADIZ and activate my domestic IFR flight plan at that point. I assume at that point they will clear me to my destination (KPRS) and hand me to ABQ center. Is that a proper procedure? I will fly that domestic IFR plan and cancel it when I have KPRS in sight. Thanks much. Ed 

 

As a side note, I want to file domestic ifr entering mexico a few days earlier. Bullhead city Arizona to San Felipe Mexico. I fully understand the eapis system other than my IFR question. Ed

[Mooneymite]

Use Fltplan.com and file ICAO for either domestic, or international. It takes the guess work out. Very simple. This is not to say there aren't other options, but why bother?

[craftyboy]

Yeah your right about Fltplan.com 

 

 I will file the ICAO at Chihuahua (towered airport) to KPRS in Texas.   When I call US FSS on the radio prior to crossing the ADIZ, will the FSS know of my flight plan or will I need to have one on file from the border to KPRS?  I'm just hung up on the outbound flight plan.. whether the ICAO transfers to the US. I want to triple confirm everything for this trip. 

 

Thanks. Ed 

[Mike A]

FYI got this email this morning:

 

 PRESS RELEASE: THINK TWICE ABOUT FLYING YOUR PLANE TO MEXICO

 

 

For Immediate Release

U.S. Pilot’s Aviation Nightmare in Mexico

Think Twice About Flying Your Plane to Mexico

 

Imagine flying your private plane to Mexico to spend tourism dollars, landing at Cancun, immediately having your plane impounded and then threatened with a fine of $5,000 to $25,000! And then sitting around for six days waiting to hear from Mexican Civil Aviation authorities (DGAC) if and when your plane can fly back to the U.S.!  Not exactly an ideal vacation.

 

The “N” registered Cessna 210 with husband and wife on board was flying from a visit in Belize to meet friends in Cancun.  The pilot had checked NOTAMS, filed a Mexican APIS notifying his arrival from Belize to Cancun, filed an international IFR flight plan which was accepted by Belize and Mexico, was in constant radio contact with Belize and Mexican ATC including Cancun approach and was cleared to land by the Cancun tower.  As soon as he landed, Mexican civil aviation officials (DGAC) confiscated his aircraft.

 

Six days later, following a six hour meeting (in Spanish) with DGAC officials in Cancun (“how much do you want to pay?”) he received his first communication from DGAC headquarters in Mexico City - “You violated Mexican law. The fine is US$1,000.”  On day seven it took over five hours to process the penalty payment and  to receive clearance to depart.

 

The private pilot followed all the international civil aviation procedures for flying in the Caribbean.  Mexico’s response can only be characterized as extreme.  It was extreme in relation to a minor non-safety, non-security infraction of a regulation which the vast majority of private U.S. pilots could not find even if they were told it existed.  It was extreme given the pilot’s APIS notification of arrival, successful filing of an international flight plan and clearance to land by Mexican civil aviation who were clearly aware that he was arriving from Belize.  His plane was immediately impounded as soon as he landed.  His aircraft was refused takeoff clearance for an entire week waiting for the DGAC legal department to make a simple decision about his status.  He was fined US$1,000.  Attempts to reason with Civil Aviation officials in Mexico city was fruitless.  Could this really happen in today’s world?  The answer is “yes.”

 

According to Caribbean Flying Adventures, the leading pilot’s guide for the Caribbean, “Other Caribbean destinations aggressively compete for U.S. private aviation tourism dollars.  Not so Mexican Civil Aviation authorities.  Their extreme response to this completely unintentional and minor infraction will cause thousands of U.S. private pilots to think twice about flying their planes to Mexico.”

Lesson learned?  Think seriously about Flying your private aircraft to Mexico.  There could be other hidden regulations that will earn you an involuntary week in Mexico accompanied by fines of up to $25,000 depending on your negotiating skills.  It should also be mentioned that there were several hints about paying local DGAC officials to make the whole thing go away.  The pilot was concerned that a bribe might land him in even more trouble and he refused to pay.  Mistake?  That’s not the point.  This unacceptable treatment has no place in the 21st century world of international civil aviation. The good news is you will never be treated like this anywhere else in the entire Caribbean.  Only in Mexico.  For more details about this aviation nightmare, read on.

 

DGAC:   You violated our laws.  The company should have known better.

Pilot:  We’re not a company.  I am a private pilot in a small single engine aircraft and would not have a clue where to find Mexican regulations and would not understand them even if I found them since I do not speak Spanish.  Like thousands of other private pilots, I assumed that all I needed to know would be available in English in the NOTAMS, or in response to my APIS submission, or in acceptance or rejection of my flight plan or as directed by ATC.

DGAC:  Belize should have never accepted your flight plan.  It’s their fault.

Pilot:  Mexico accepted our flight plan also. Why did Cancun tower clear me to land?

DGAC:  Our ATC does not know who has or does not have a permit to land in Cancun.

Pilot:  But your DGAC officials on the ground at Cancun obviously knew that I was arriving from Belize and impounded my plan as soon as I landed. Why could they have not given Cancun approach or Cancun tower a heads up to warn us to land at nearby Cozumel?  It almost seems like entrapment.

DGAC:  you need to respect our laws.

Pilot:  Could you please publish a NOTAM warning pilots not to land at Cancun when coming from the South; and  instruct DGAC officials on the ground at Cancun who are clearly monitoring traffic from the south to remind small GA aircraft by radio that they need to land at Cozumel rather than clearing them to land at Cancun and then impounding their aircraft. That would be the reasonable and decent thing to do.  Otherwise, your actions can only be construed as “entrapment.”

DGAC:  you need to respect our laws. You are welcome to visit our offices in Mexico City to learn about our laws (this from the DGAC legal department)

 

Thinking about flying your plane to Mexico to spend your tourism dollars?  Think again.

 

Follow up inquiries to Jim Parker at CaribbeanFlyingAdventures

Jim@CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com

305-667-6282

[chrisk]

I wish this article would have been written better.    With that said, it clearly indicates Mexico is not GA friendly.

 

The problem is spelled out on the AOPA website:

Mexican NOTAM A 0313/08 is still in effect and has been incorporated into the Mexican Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP): Effective Feb. 1, 2008, any general aviation aircraft that plans to land in Mexico on a flight that originated in the Caribbean or Central and South America, must make their first landing in either Cozumel (MMCZ), or in Tapachula (MMTP). Both airports operate on a 24-hour schedule. This NOTAM is in effect until further notice. Note: It has been reported that occasional flights from the Bahamas, as well as from other countries, may be diverted to land at one of these airports.

 

And you can also read about pilots who forgot to file the US EAPIS and landed at Puerto Rico.  They were also threatened with a large fine.  --So Mexico isn't the only place where pilots get slammed.

[craftyboy]

Ok I found my answer:

 

 

Part 99 for ADIZ border crossing:

 

1: Active Flight Plan

2: Discrete Transponder Code

3: Talking to ATC

 

If Mexico doesn't forward my ICAO flight plan to the US, I can have a dummy FP setup in the US from KPRS to KPRS.  Or..  Just create a new flight plan in the air with FSS prior to ADIZ. 

[kortopates]

Inbound, you'll only need to file a US ICAO flightplan if you are entering VFR. If you enter on a IFR flight plan they'll hand you off at the border and you'll always be on squawk code. If you are entering VFR you need to file a ICAO through any of the DUAT providers or Lockhead Martin via their website 1800wxbrief.com or you could even do it over the phone using skype (which usually works well from Mexico providing you have internet access). Don't rely on Mexico to get your flight plan to the US - often it works but when it doesn't you have you have to file a full flight plan over the radio with FSS which is painful from the air. Remember you can update your eAPIS arrival time in the air on a FSS radio frequency as long as you contact them at least 30 min out from your arrival time. Often that means you can't be very low and reach them that far out.

DVFR flights plans are no longer used, they have been replaced by ICAO International flight plans.

[kortopates]

I wish this article would have been written better.    With that said, it clearly indicates Mexico is not GA friendly.

 

The problem is spelled out on the AOPA website:

Mexican NOTAM A 0313/08 is still in effect and has been incorporated into the Mexican Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP): Effective Feb. 1, 2008, any general aviation aircraft that plans to land in Mexico on a flight that originated in the Caribbean or Central and South America, must make their first landing in either Cozumel (MMCZ), or in Tapachula (MMTP). Both airports operate on a 24-hour schedule. This NOTAM is in effect until further notice. Note: It has been reported that occasional flights from the Bahamas, as well as from other countries, may be diverted to land at one of these airports.

 

And you can also read about pilots who forgot to file the US EAPIS and landed at Puerto Rico.  They were also threatened with a large fine.  --So Mexico isn't the only place where pilots get slammed.

 

I agree about the poorly written article. It really looks like self serving sensationalism to me - aimed entirely at scaring people away from trying to fly into Mexico alone without hiring their services. Fact is its real easy and the rules are surely not hidden in spanish on some mexican DGAC site, they're readily available from many aviation web site like Baja Bush and others. For all the good Rick Gardner does, especially as the AOPA Mexico rep, its really frustrating too see this kind of stuff. Its just like at the start of the Mexican APIS thing, Caribbean sky tours was virtually as bad as FlightPlan.Com insisting that you better file a Mexican APIS through their fee based ARINC interface when the truth was no one in Mexico cared, nor had the majority of any GA airport Commadantes even hear about this new policy/law being implemented - they had been out of the loop. But more importantly there was no enforcement of this new law simply because they still have a lot of work to do to implement the infrastructure. Its over years later since the laws debut and if you file a Mexican APIS today it still doesn't go beyond Mexico City; nobody really cares and there sure hasn't been an attempted enforcement of private GA flights. Eventually this will change and with the new free email filing method by sending a spreadsheet its foolish to ignore it since they're making it so easy. 

 

Anyway, WRT crossing the southern Mexican border, Mexico's policy is virtually identical to the US. Note from our Northern border you are not obligated to stop at the first AOE airport and can continue further south - same in Mexico. But not so coming into the US from the south. Same thing in Mexico except they have such a smaller border on the south they only have two AOE's they let us use; which isn't a problem if you do your due diligence. If you ever entered Mexico from the south you'll understand why they do it.

 

Lastly since the last CBP fine that I have heard of recently was for a US pilot re-entering the US that didn't declare he had a couple of oranges on board was fined $500. Based on that,  do you really think a US pilot would get fined for less than a couple thousand dollars if they failed to stop at one of the border airports like our hapless pilot above did in Mexico?? I doubt it; especially after trying to tell them their rules didn't apply to him. Really???

[Will W]

Hey. FSS here doing International Flight Plans.  All flight plans have to be ICAO both ways.  If you file on fltplan.com, they will screw up your flight plan and if it files domestic, it is automatically thrown out by all ATC systems involved.  DUATS flight plans will not be accepted coming back into the USA but flight plans to Mexico can be accepted but if this is your first attempt, DON'T DO IT YOURSELF!  Your flight plan will get rejected by the computer and you will NOT receive an e-mail about flight plan issues from fltplan.com or duats.

 

Call and get it through FSS on the USA side.  There is a different number for international briefings and flight plans.  I included a youtube video for using Lockheed Martins Pilot Portal which is soon to replace DUATS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oquTAjzekww&index=6&list=PLqa9423Jd9MqIQ_zGBa10E3dETHO_hroH

 

When airborne, you NEVER call to get a clearance through flight service.  You have to call center or approach ONLY when you are in the air.  Why don't you pick up your IFR clearance in Mexico?

 

You need to know the EET times which are the boundary crossing times for Mexico's FIR and USA FIR.  This is time from departure so figure it out.  You have to be within 15 minutes.

 

You cannot just file domestic IFR in the United States though and pick it up.  The center will not allow you in the country.  If they do, you will get a phone number when you land.

 

FOR GOD SAKES, CALL FSS and ask questions before you file the real flight plan.  You pay for it in your taxes.  Why not use it?

 

Below is a link for all International AFSS & Customs phone numbers.

https://www.1800wxbrief.com/afss/#!/phone-numbers-quick-steps

[aaronk25]

So just make sure not to land at cancun first if your traveling for other country's in the region, check (excludes U.S.). Ok that wasn't too hard.

I flew to mexico 1 year ago for wedding. Piece of cake.. Slow paper process in Mexico, but so what.

When We left Merida MX which is 150miles west of cancun for southern texas it was IFR with tops at 3000ft but unlike the US there is no IFR clearance to get on top, you have to file your entire flight. So I filled flying the entire inside circumference of the gulf of MX up to TX. But as soon as I broke out of the deck on take off I told Merida departure "I'm on top vfr and going to squawk 1200 direct TX., see Ya". They said good bye....flipped transponder to 1200 and 500nm straight across the gulf....I think the controller in Merida has seen that a time or 2

Called Brownsville Tower at the ADIZ line and no problem. They didn't even search the plane.

[chrisk]

Jim has had a second note on GA in Mexico.  It's much better than the first.

 

 

 

For Immediate Release

U.S. Pilot’s Aviation Nightmare in Mexico

Think Twice About Flying Your Plane to Mexico

 

The press release on Mexico's extreme treatment of a private pilot in Cancun has identified even more concerns about Flying to Mexico.  But first the specifics of the C210 incident.

 

The pilot was cleared to land at Cancun Feb 27 and the plane was immediately impounded and held until March 6.  He and his wife arrived Cancun from a two night visit to Belize following a Fly In to Guatemala with Caribbean Flying Adventures.

 

There is a 2008 Mexican Civil Aviation (DGAC) regulation requiring aircraft arriving Mexico airports from other than the U.S. to land at Tapachula in the southwest or at Cozumel.  Unfortunately, this restriction is not posted as a NOTAM.  The average GA pilot would not have a clue as to its existence and would not even think to look for it beyond checking NOTAMS for Cancun airport which is listed in all directories as an airport of entry.  The C210 pilot checked NOTAMS, filed a Mexican APIS, filed an international IFR flight and was in constant radio communication with ATC including Cancun approach and Cancun tower.

 

DGAC knew the aircraft was arriving from the south and nevertheless cleared it to land.  It then immediately impounded the aircraft and kept the pilot waiting for six days before making him pay a $1,000 fine.  The only aircraft authorized to land at Cancun from the south are those carrying very senior Mexican government officials and diplomatic flights with very senior officials from other countries.  The other 99% of the flights from the south must land at Cozumel.  It remains inexcusable that Mexican Civil Aviation chooses to clear the 99% to land - knowing that they are arriving from the south - and then immediately impounds the aircraft and threatens the pilot with fines up to $25,000.

 

Caribbean Flying Adventures (CFA) has made two requests to the Mexican DGAC:  1) please publish a NOTAM for Cancun instructing pilots to land at Cozumel when arriving from other than the U.S., and 2) instruct Cancun approach and tower to notify aircraft coming from the south to land at Cozumel.  These two actions would easily prevent future incidents.  When the C210 arrived on Feb 27 it was one of two planes in the same predicament.  The C210 was not an isolated incident.   How many more unsuspecting private pilots wishing to spend their tourism dollars in Mexico must be put through this same nightmare?  Obviously, there is a critical need for a NOTAM.   Mexico's Civil Aviation Authority has refused both requests.

 

Hopefully, those with an interest in advocating for U.S. private pilots will encourage the Mexican Civil Aviation authority to issue a NOTAM at Cancun. 

 

Send an email, if you like, to the following DGAC officials suggesting that their harsh treatment of private pilots is discouraging private aviation tourism to Mexico and would they please publish a NOTAM for Cancun regarding arrivals from the south.  Would they also please instruct their officials at the major airports of entry to follow existing regulations consistently and welcome private aviation tourism with open arms instead of open palms:  Enrique Moreno Navarro emoreno@sct.gob.mx and Guillermo Alberto Magana Hernandez gmagana@sct.gob.mx

 

Caribbean Flying Adventures recommends that private pilots with limited international experience who are used to landing in the Bahamas and clearing customs in 10 minutes not fly their aircraft to Mexico.  There are simply too many hassles and potential pit falls.   To mention a few . . .

 

1) a recent aircraft was cleared for takeoff but was escorted back to the terminal by police vehicles because Mexican authorities had made a $3 mistake with the airport fees.  He paid the $3 and was then charged another $100 ramp fee; 2) last year CFA obtained a multiple entry permit coming from the north and was forced by Cozumel to buy another multiple entry permit coming from the south; 3) Chetumal (MMCM) insists on making payment with credit cards for airport fee and charges $95 for a multiple entry permit - Cozumel insists on paying with dollars and charges $140 for a multiple entry permit; 4) Cozumel does not require immigration forms or passenger departure taxes for a fuel stop (as is the internationally accepted rule for "technical" fuel stops) - Cancun and Chetumal insist on immigration forms and collecting passenger taxes for a fuel stop; 5) a fuel stop in Cozumel takes approximately 90 minutes - in Chetumal, 3 aircraft spent 2.5 hours for a fuel stop in February; 6) a private pilot last year was invited to the Commandante's office at Cancun and invited to pay a $100 fee to expedite his airport experience; 7) Mexican regulations for the new APIS remain unclear.  Currently, Mexico does not respond to APIS submissions so the pilot is completely exposed should some local official decide to create a problem; 8) Mexican management of the now strictly enforced overflight permits and fees are unreliable.  There have been instances in the past six months where highly experienced pilots whose overflight fees have been paid have been turned back at the boundary for lack of payment!

 

To repeat, for those pilots accustomed to flying to the Caribbean islands with a flight plan and few General Declaration forms and clearing customs in in 10 minutes, Mexico may not be a good choice for a you and your aircraft.  Unless your Spanish language skills are passable and you are comfortable "tipping" officials to resolve " problems" you should think twice about flying your plane to Mexico.

 

Mexico is a great tourist destination generally but Mexican airports and local Civil Aviation authorities seem to operate on whims.  On the other hand, the Baha side of Mexico is much more inviting and less problematic than the east.  And of course when Flying with an experienced tour operator such as the Baha Bush Pilots, there are no worries at all.

 

Communicating in English is problematic and the entry and departure procedures are overwhelmingly bureaucratic.  Go if you are confident or are flying with the Baha Bush Pilots.  Otherwise, fly your plane to tropical destinations where you are welcome and safe.

 

Jim Parker

President and Pilot

www.CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com

Jim@CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com

305-667-6282

[Will W]

The tipping process in Mexico is too widespread and you seem to come from money just because you have an airplane.  I would never fly to Mexico.

[RobertoTohme]

If you haven't done the flight already, don't complicate yourself; it's pretty easy:  file the VFR ICAO plan in MMCU, and 20 miles out from Presidio call ABQ radio advising you're on a VFR plan inbound Presidio and you need a squack code; they'll issue one and just make your standard calls on unicom.  Customs know you're coming because of eapis, and you won't be talking to anyone in mexican airspace after you leave Chihuahua boundary...

 

As to the "horror story" published here, Where's the part that "the pilot should get all pertinent information related to the flight intended"?  Yes, aviation authorities in Mexico are generally crappy and it's costly to land in mexico's airports, but if you do your due diligence there are no surprises, just the time consuming dealings with their red tape and fees payment.  It's sad that some members here, out of plain ignorance, pass on the opportunity of a great vacation or business deal.  I can safely assume that no one here (or other brand forums for that matter) has more international ops to mexico from the US than I do, since I average more than 50 ops per year for the last 9 years, plus a couple coming from central america that clear at Tapachula, Guess What?  Never ever had a problem!  So if we do the math, that's over 470 ops without a hiccup; you just need to know what docs you need with you and mind notams, for which Baja Bush Pilots or Caribbean Sky Tours can brief you on quickly and efficiently.

[aaronk25]

Blown out of proportion.....sure paper work is a pain and office for different officials arnt next to each other at cozumel (they are at cancun) and its a bit annoying that guards politely but firmly want to search your plane at ever stop (except I wasn't searched at cancun)....but it was a good experience.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I learned about the rule for arrivals from the Caribbean or South America during my flight planning process, even though I was flight planning for going to Baja from the US. Also, if he was on a Caribbean Flying Adventures trip, you'd think that someone from CFA would have known about this rule and would have briefed the pilots. Doesn't add up.

 

Still, it's quite sh*tty for the Mexican controllers to clear these planes to land at Cancun, knowing they're in violation of the law, and the treatment they got while there was out of line as well. But that's Mexico. They don't have any tolerance for coloring outside the lines.

[chrisk]

I think there is lots of tolerance for "coloring outside the lines".  The problem is you never know which line is important.  It reminds me of a friend who was in stop and go traffic in Tijuana (years ago).  He was given a ticket, which needed to be paid at that moment, because he did not stop precisely at the white line for a stop sign.    I suspect that cops job was to stand at the same corner every day with the same scam.

 

This will happen with Mexican EAPIS.  They don't enforce it today.  Eventually, some enterprising government agent will accuse an American of not following the rules and demand payment.  Since the system doesn't give proof of filing (in and out of Mexico), the American/Canadian will either pay the fine, or hang out for 2 years in Mexico trying to get their plane back. 

[RobertoTohme]

Let me share a fact about mexican eapis..  If you are a Part 91 operator, you're still not required to file it.  The word of the law says "it must be filed on the official web portal of the INM"...  and it happens that the portal doesn't exist, so legally, they can not pin you for that.   I have personally checked this fact with a couple of friends in Mexico that happen to be Federal Judges, and FEMPPA (mexico's version of AOPA) has actively pressured the government and got an agreement that until they come up with the portal, the cockamamie system the government came up with of emailing an excel file with the data is treated as a "nice to have", but it's not enforceable.  With the above said, it's up to you if you want to send the info via email or not and if you do to make you feel safer, just print the email and have it with you; I assure you nobody is going to ask for it since the agents at the airport don't get it; it goes to a central computer on some obscure building in Mexico City and nobody monitors it.  Don't ask how I know but I DO know.

 

Now, if you're Part 135 or 121, that's a whole other story; I'm also a Part 135 operator and the requirement imposed by the government is to file electronically thru Honeywell's ARINC portal, contracted by the government (without a bidding contest, by the way) where you as an operator have to sign up for, pay a stiff annual fee and 260 dollars per manifest, whether inbound or outbound.

 

These are the facts...  Whether you want to follow my advise or not is entirely up to you.  When and if such portal becomes available in the future (I doubt it for Part 91), I'll be first to know and will post the information here accordingly, with links to the correct website.

 

P.D.  I fly in as Part 91 so I never file, and the charter fleet goes as Part 135 and we, or should I say our customer, gets stiffed with the $520 per round trip on top of the charter rate.

[chrisk]

Roberto, Thank you for sharing that.  I did not know the law said it had to be filed on the official INM portal. I live about 200 miles for the border and would love to be able to visit Mexico by plane without worry.   I think I know the requirements, but  I have not reached the point where I am truly comfortable.

[RobertoTohme]

Chris, When you decide to do it and considering you're based at Austin, clear at MMAN (Del Norte-Monterrey); they're friendly as it can get and they work nothing but private flights.  From there you can head anywhere you wish to spend time in Mexico without a hassle, just have your arrival paper flight plan closing handy as it's required for filing further flight plans within Mexico, and the reason to that is that the date on it starts the clock for the 6 months the plane is allowed to stay in mexico.  It didn't use to be that way, but there's plenty of mexicans with N registered planes based in Mexico (I don't blame them, dealing with DGAC is a nightmare) but seldom flew outside of the country, so now they check the last entry date to verify it's within the 6 month entry permit.

 

Also, flights within Mexico don't require flight plan closing in paper anymore, regardless of VFR or IFR; this is a fairly new ruling that started about 2 - 3 months ago.  International arrivals still require the paper closing and the miryad of stamps of the different authorities; that's the one you carry with you at all times.

[craftyboy]

Want update you guys on my trip  (Mooney N1077G)...    I flew from CT to Utah,  Picked up my friend and we headed south to San Felipe, Couple days in Alamos,  then Chihuahua and enter the US in Presideo Texas.  The trip was great.  As anticipated I did have a problem raising anyone prior to crossing to texas.  I was at 9500.  No joy on any flight service freq, Nor ABQ center.   I climbed to 11500 still no joy.   I was doing 10 mile legs on the mex side trying to raise anyone.  Finally I got a Flightwatch guy that was helpful in that he relayed my request and got me a squawk to cross.   Customs folks could not have been nicer in Presidio.   Here is a video set of my entire trip in case anyone is interested.

 

PS:  thanks to all for the encouragement and advice.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpeuVaVrQZjIDAP_eSqelfSuvBmgJ_Cqe

[Oscar Avalle]

How difficult was the inbound and outbound customs process in Mexico? What did they ask you in terms of documentation... 

[Oscar Avalle]

 

FYI got this email this morning:

 

 PRESS RELEASE: THINK TWICE ABOUT FLYING YOUR PLANE TO MEXICO

 

 

For Immediate Release

U.S. Pilot’s Aviation Nightmare in Mexico

Think Twice About Flying Your Plane to Mexico

 

Imagine flying your private plane to Mexico to spend tourism dollars, landing at Cancun, immediately having your plane impounded and then threatened with a fine of $5,000 to $25,000! And then sitting around for six days waiting to hear from Mexican Civil Aviation authorities (DGAC) if and when your plane can fly back to the U.S.!  Not exactly an ideal vacation.

 

The “N” registered Cessna 210 with husband and wife on board was flying from a visit in Belize to meet friends in Cancun.  The pilot had checked NOTAMS, filed a Mexican APIS notifying his arrival from Belize to Cancun, filed an international IFR flight plan which was accepted by Belize and Mexico, was in constant radio contact with Belize and Mexican ATC including Cancun approach and was cleared to land by the Cancun tower.  As soon as he landed, Mexican civil aviation officials (DGAC) confiscated his aircraft.

 

Six days later, following a six hour meeting (in Spanish) with DGAC officials in Cancun (“how much do you want to pay?”) he received his first communication from DGAC headquarters in Mexico City - “You violated Mexican law. The fine is US$1,000.”  On day seven it took over five hours to process the penalty payment and  to receive clearance to depart.

 

The private pilot followed all the international civil aviation procedures for flying in the Caribbean.  Mexico’s response can only be characterized as extreme.  It was extreme in relation to a minor non-safety, non-security infraction of a regulation which the vast majority of private U.S. pilots could not find even if they were told it existed.  It was extreme given the pilot’s APIS notification of arrival, successful filing of an international flight plan and clearance to land by Mexican civil aviation who were clearly aware that he was arriving from Belize.  His plane was immediately impounded as soon as he landed.  His aircraft was refused takeoff clearance for an entire week waiting for the DGAC legal department to make a simple decision about his status.  He was fined US$1,000.  Attempts to reason with Civil Aviation officials in Mexico city was fruitless.  Could this really happen in today’s world?  The answer is “yes.”

 

According to Caribbean Flying Adventures, the leading pilot’s guide for the Caribbean, “Other Caribbean destinations aggressively compete for U.S. private aviation tourism dollars.  Not so Mexican Civil Aviation authorities.  Their extreme response to this completely unintentional and minor infraction will cause thousands of U.S. private pilots to think twice about flying their planes to Mexico.”

Lesson learned?  Think seriously about Flying your private aircraft to Mexico.  There could be other hidden regulations that will earn you an involuntary week in Mexico accompanied by fines of up to $25,000 depending on your negotiating skills.  It should also be mentioned that there were several hints about paying local DGAC officials to make the whole thing go away.  The pilot was concerned that a bribe might land him in even more trouble and he refused to pay.  Mistake?  That’s not the point.  This unacceptable treatment has no place in the 21st century world of international civil aviation. The good news is you will never be treated like this anywhere else in the entire Caribbean.  Only in Mexico.  For more details about this aviation nightmare, read on.

 

DGAC:   You violated our laws.  The company should have known better.

Pilot:  We’re not a company.  I am a private pilot in a small single engine aircraft and would not have a clue where to find Mexican regulations and would not understand them even if I found them since I do not speak Spanish.  Like thousands of other private pilots, I assumed that all I needed to know would be available in English in the NOTAMS, or in response to my APIS submission, or in acceptance or rejection of my flight plan or as directed by ATC.

DGAC:  Belize should have never accepted your flight plan.  It’s their fault.

Pilot:  Mexico accepted our flight plan also. Why did Cancun tower clear me to land?

DGAC:  Our ATC does not know who has or does not have a permit to land in Cancun.

Pilot:  But your DGAC officials on the ground at Cancun obviously knew that I was arriving from Belize and impounded my plan as soon as I landed. Why could they have not given Cancun approach or Cancun tower a heads up to warn us to land at nearby Cozumel?  It almost seems like entrapment.

DGAC:  you need to respect our laws.

Pilot:  Could you please publish a NOTAM warning pilots not to land at Cancun when coming from the South; and  instruct DGAC officials on the ground at Cancun who are clearly monitoring traffic from the south to remind small GA aircraft by radio that they need to land at Cozumel rather than clearing them to land at Cancun and then impounding their aircraft. That would be the reasonable and decent thing to do.  Otherwise, your actions can only be construed as “entrapment.”

DGAC:  you need to respect our laws. You are welcome to visit our offices in Mexico City to learn about our laws (this from the DGAC legal department)

 

Thinking about flying your plane to Mexico to spend your tourism dollars?  Think again.

 

Follow up inquiries to Jim Parker at CaribbeanFlyingAdventures

Jim@CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com

305-667-6282

 

This is a complicated issue, that scares me a lot. Mexico has just a few airports that you can use as a first point of entry. If you land somewhere else you are In BIG PROBLEMS... but overall the procedures are not very transparent, nor clear. Last time I flew with a friend of mine into Mexico on our way to the US, we landed in Cozumel Mexico. Did all the procedures, bought a multiple entry permit from Guatemala into Mexico. But on our way back from the US, we landed in Cozumel again and did the paperwork again. To our surprise they wanted to charge us again for the entry permit. So we showed the multi entry permit that we had paid for. The answer was, yes that is a multiple permit to enter from Guatemala into Mexico, but you are coming from the US. So, Gringo, pay or stay. So we paid, of course we are still waiting for the official invoice and receipt.

[carusoam]

Made flying into Mexico seem like an extension of TX.

Favorite part of the recorded radio transmission...

"77G, slow for the 737 in front of you"

Or is that just what I wanted to hear?

Thanks for sharing. The marked up charts really helped me understand your progress.

Best regards,

-a-

[craftyboy]

Made flying into Mexico seem like an extension of TX.

Favorite part of the recorded radio transmission...

"77G, slow for the 737 in front of you"

Or is that just what I wanted to hear?

Thanks for sharing. The marked up charts really helped me understand your progress.

Best regards,

-a-

That didn't make sense to me either. I was on the Rnav approach. Turns out the 737 was preparing for takoff and tower wanted me to slow down so the jet could have time to taxi and take off.

[craftyboy]

How difficult was the inbound and outbound customs process in Mexico? What did they ask you in terms of documentation... 

San Felipe (entry to mexico) couldn't have been easier.  I had my folder with all the required docs.  The officials just picked what they wanted and made copies of some of it.  Process took 30-45 minutes.   Chihuahua (mexico exit) process took longer and was not as straight forward.  Seemed like they wanted to find some faults in my documents, but eventually told me I was all set.