Falling for Mooney's???

[ahkahn]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a PPL (4 years) and am actively working on an instrument rating.  I am nearing the position to purchase a plane, and my missions are shining on the 4-seat X-Country family of planes.  I have been renting a 182 for X-C trips and a 172 for training...  I also have some Piper Arrow time, as well.  I love the G-1000, and get that in the 172, but my budget does not dictate buying a plane with one.  From everything I can tell, the Mooney seems to be a standout for me.  I've been attracted to 201's or early 231's because of my budget (70-90k).  It seems that the market on these has really dropped.   My original crush was on a Bellanca Super Viking, but I've heard these are maintenance nightmares and are very difficult (if not impossible) to effectively service.  I'm obviously attracted to speed (and efficiency!)

 

The overwhelming complaint that I've heard about Mooney's is their interior size.  I know that on the book they're slightly larger than 182's, Arrows, and the like, but I've heard the fit is different.  I've read that short people have problems in Mooney's (I'm 5'7" with short legs) reaching the rudder pedals.  I did take a look up close at a "C", and it appeared ridiculously small inside (but I know the J's and K's are bigger).  

 

My question (I know it took me a while to get here!): 

 

Is there anyone in (or around) the Chicagoland area with a 201 or 231 that would be so kind as to let me (and perhaps my family) take a look at their Mooney?  If you'd even be open to it, I would also be happy to even pay for the fuel for a quick ride (dog and pony show!).   It's not like buying a car where you can just head up to the lot and take it for a test drive to see if you like it! 

 

Thanks!

 

-Andrew

[carusoam]

Is somebody try to dissuade you from speed and efficiency?

Is the Viking the fastest, all aluminum, factory built, normally aspirated, single engine airplane?

What did they tell you at VikingSpace.com?

Keep in mind, I fell for a Mooney once.

Best regards,

-a-

[urbanti]

Hi Andrew.

I'm 5' 5" (ie shorter than you) and find the seat on the M20E has better adjusting range than my old 172. I can adjust the seat forward and have full rudder pedal travel and full brake pedal functionality, and the seat may not even be fully forward.

I have also flown in a friend's J and have good seat adjustability range in that plane also.

FWIW, my experience is the both short and tall people fit fine in Mooneys, but people who are very broad or heavy-set may find it a tight fit.

Good luck with your new plane safari, it's a buyers market out there but especially as a first time buyer make sure you take your time and enlist experts on your side.

best

Tim

[DonMuncy]

The size of the space in a Mooney is strictly in the perception. Planes with big doors and where you sit up high seem to have a lot of room. Actually, the width of the cockpit in a Mooney is as great or greater than most. But because the door is small and you climb down into it, the illusion is that it is small. I admit the getting into a Mooney is a bit more difficult than a Bonanza or 172, but once inside, there is room for anyone but the heaviest of people.

[Houman]

I agree with all previous posts, but I would say that you can actually buy rudder pedal extenders from Mooney, I'm 5'4 and bought a M20K Rocket and before the extension, I had either the yoke in my belly or I could'nt reach the brakes, but after the 5" rudder extensions, I fit in it fine. If you buy your Mooney, give the Mooney a call, they will set you up pretty quickly. I got mine the next week after I had ordered it.

 

I also agree the 1 door mooney seems smaller than others, I kind of miss my Beech Sundowner 2 doors high seats, but not it's speed. The nice thing about Mooney's is that you are spending less time in the plane than you would of with slower airplanes.

 

Good hunting !!!

[jrwilson]

Well as the owner of a 20C, I will have to disagree with your characterization of them as "ridiculously small." Perhaps it is you that is ridiculously uninformed? Why would I bother to correct you though? I wouldn't want someone so ridiculously opinionated to buy one anyway.

[Nopo]

1. I own an M20K. My previous aircraft was a Cherokee. The mooney feels smaller inside. I am 5 08 and I don't need pedals extension. I would say that taller people fit better in a mooney than a Cherokee. 2. I live in Chicago. Feel free to PM me if you would like to take a look at my M20K. Good luck in your search! PS: I am not aware of any plane that can match the M20K in terms of speed, efficiency and price!

[ahkahn]

Thank you everyone for your comments!  I didn't mean to offend any "C" owners with the "ridiculously small" comment...  I did not sit in it, just walked up to it, and I know that Mooney's can appear smaller because they sit so low.

 

@Carusoam:  I am have not spoken to any Viking fans...  I just did my research.  I like the plane, but I much prefer the Mooney in visual appeal and specification.  That's what has attracted me to the M20.  

 

@Daver328:  Thank you for writing your comments!  Again, I meant no offense by the "ridiculously small" comments.  I really can't know unless I get into one.  Otherwise, I appreciate everything you wrote and it has inspired me even more to continue the search. 

 

I will check into the pedal extensions.  

 

@Nopo - PM Sent.

 

Thank you everyone!  I look forward to talking more "Mooney" with you!

 

-Andrew

[hnorber]

Andrew - 
I have a 201 based at KPWK.  Feel free to send me a PM and I'd be happy to show you my plane as well.

 

- Howard.

[pinerunner]

I'm 5'7" with a 29" inseam and I still have one notch of travel left in my M20E.  You step down from the wing into the Mooney and that probably makes the interior seem smaller. Also the door post is slightly back relative to the floor so I have to grap something and lean back when getting in. So it is a bit more trouble getting in than the Cessna's I grew up with but once in I'm very comfortable. With tall folks in front the rear seat passengers have it tough; I'm not sure how much better it is in the F and J models. But for the pilot and front seat passenger I think the Mooney is fine, even for a long trip.

[omega708]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a PPL (4 years) and am actively working on an instrument rating.  I am nearing the position to purchase a plane, and my missions are shining on the 4-seat X-Country family of planes.  I have been renting a 182 for X-C trips and a 172 for training...  I also have some Piper Arrow time, as well.  I love the G-1000, and get that in the 172, but my budget does not dictate buying a plane with one.  From everything I can tell, the Mooney seems to be a standout for me.  I've been attracted to 201's or early 231's because of my budget (70-90k).  It seems that the market on these has really dropped.   My original crush was on a Bellanca Super Viking, but I've heard these are maintenance nightmares and are very difficult (if not impossible) to effectively service.  I'm obviously attracted to speed (and efficiency!)

 

The overwhelming complaint that I've heard about Mooney's is their interior size.  I know that on the book they're slightly larger than 182's, Arrows, and the like, but I've heard the fit is different.  I've read that short people have problems in Mooney's (I'm 5'7" with short legs) reaching the rudder pedals.  I did take a look up close at a "C", and it appeared ridiculously small inside (but I know the J's and K's are bigger).  

 

My question (I know it took me a while to get here!): 

 

Is there anyone in (or around) the Chicagoland area with a 201 or 231 that would be so kind as to let me (and perhaps my family) take a look at their Mooney?  If you'd even be open to it, I would also be happy to even pay for the fuel for a quick ride (dog and pony show!).   It's not like buying a car where you can just head up to the lot and take it for a test drive to see if you like it! 

 

Thanks!

 

-Andrew

FWIW,  a buddy of mine recently borrowed my "C" model and flew it with two friends who are also pilots.  Although the legroom in the back of a "C" model looks absolutely awful when the seats are all the way back, there is a fair bit of room once you're situated.  That said there is significantly more leg room in the mid and long-body aircraft.

 

The interesting part is that the guys flying in the back seat were shocked at the amount of shoulder and headroom when compared to the PA-28 / C172 back seat.

[Amelia]

I have a 1980 Mooney 231, and love it. Still. After more than 25 years. I'm 5'4", or at least I used to be. Probably shorter now. I have the 1.5" rudder pedal extensions, but wish I had gone for the bigger ones, because my grandma's girth, with the seat all the way forward, makes it a little tight on the flare, especially with the yoke-mounted ipad mini. It's just a matter of getting used to. I used to sit on a seat cushion, which made visibility great, but found it unnecessary once the seats were reupholstered. You do sit with your feet outstretched, like a sports car, rather than upright with your knees bent, like a Toyota sedan, but it's comfortable for a long ride. One thing to remember about cabin size is that it's rare that two people want the seats the same distance from the panel, or the seat backs the same degree of incline. My husband eases his right seat back for his in-flight nap, and he might as well be sitting in the back. Our shoulders never touch.

[ahkahn]

Thank you all for your comments!  I am looking forward to seeing one first hand!

 

-Andrew

[Thunder669]

I am in a similar position as you. Have had my ppl 2.5 years and wearing out on the go to rent a plane and it is booked when I want it or the other things I am also nearing the purchase of my first plane. I have always had a thing for mooneys with their speed and backwards tail. So I have kept an open mind but really been researching the mooney. Because I will have my girl and her kids with me fairly regularly I want an f model. Well a couple weeks ago I ran into a guy on our field with a m20f exec. He had just returned from a flight and was putting the bird and didn't have time to go back up but did let me sit in it and gave me lots of his real world flying experience with it. I found it to be much more spacious inside then the Cherokee 160 I fly on a regular basis and it sealed the deal for me. After I get my income taxes back this year I will be on the hunt for a decent f model in the $50-$60k range. Seems to be some really nice one there or a little more bare bones ones for less I could upgrade down the road to my personal taste. But believe me once you sit in one and talk to an enthusiastic owner you will be hooked!!! This guy has had this same plane for nearly 20 years and talks about like it is still his brand new toy

[ryoder]

The Mooney does feel smaller than a 172 inside at least to me. I don't rub elbows with my instructor though so it can't be. It just feels smaller. The fact that the pilots side window doesn't open up like a Cessna also bothers me. I love popping that window and allowing my arm to get some extra room on the ground. I only have 11 hours in my 65 M20C but I like how it flies. The controls are heavier than a 172 and it lands with more stability and confidence in gusty conditions. I also think it's more economical to operate in the air due to better aerodynamics and a retractable gear. In a 172 the 180hp engine mostly buys you climb rate over the 150 or 160 but in the Mooney those extra ponies make it downright fast for an inexpensive airplane. I wouldn't worry about high time engines as long as the airplane is priced accordingly. I am looking forward to having a newly overhauled engine in my personal fun machine.

[Marauder]

I am in a similar position as you. Have had my ppl 2.5 years and wearing out on the go to rent a plane and it is booked when I want it or the other things I am also nearing the purchase of my first plane. I have always had a thing for mooneys with their speed and backwards tail. So I have kept an open mind but really been researching the mooney. Because I will have my girl and her kids with me fairly regularly I want an f model. Well a couple weeks ago I ran into a guy on our field with a m20f exec. He had just returned from a flight and was putting the bird and didn't have time to go back up but did let me sit in it and gave me lots of his real world flying experience with it. I found it to be much more spacious inside then the Cherokee 160 I fly on a regular basis and it sealed the deal for me. After I get my income taxes back this year I will be on the hunt for a decent f model in the $50-$60k range. Seems to be some really nice one there or a little more bare bones ones for less I could upgrade down the road to my personal taste. But believe me once you sit in one and talk to an enthusiastic owner you will be hooked!!! This guy has had this same plane for nearly 20 years and talks about like it is still his brand new toy

I got to meet this F owner! I love my F and have enjoyed it for 23 years. There are people like me who have invested in their plane over time and hopefully you will find one like that.

[bonal]

DANGIT Marauder I was jus getting over my panel envy!

[Houman]

I got to meet this F owner! I love my F and have enjoyed it for 23 years. There are people like me who have invested in their plane over time and hopefully you will find one like that.

wow, my panel sucks comparing to this... may I ask how much have you put into this amazing pannel ?

[carusoam]

About 20 years....!

-a-

[omega708]

About 20 years....!

-a-

 

ZING! :-)

[Houman]

I guess something are better left unknown or unmentioned...

[EDNR-Cruiser]

The Mooney does feel smaller than a 172 inside at least to me.

 

 

I definitely challenge this... - I did my license in a C172 and still fly one every now and then but my M20F does offer way more elbow space than a C172, even slightly more than a Warrior III in my opinion...

The big difference is that entering a Mooney is definitely a bit more challenging and you sit much lower to the floor. I like it because it feels exactly like sitting in my Mercedes SLK...

Leg room in a M20F is also quite satisfactory even though you don't sit as high as in a Cessna but I spent an afternoon in my M20F on the backseats reading a manual with no complaints whatsoever... - the rear seats are even adjustable and much more comfortable than the backseats of the two Cessna 172N we fly in our club...

[Thunder669]

I am definitely looking for a plane to own forever. Me and my girl both have decent jobs that should allow us to retire in our late 50's which is still about 20 years away. So our plan is to buy as much plane as we can afford while still having enough left to actually enjoy out bird and puts lots of avgas through it. That is where we have figured our approx $50k budget. Then over next 20 years upgrade it, pay off all debt and save and the day we retire move to an air park somewhere down south and spend out days traveling. That is one beautiful plane you have there marauder and I hope one day to have one just as nice

[Marauder]

I guess something are better left unknown or unmentioned...

LOL! Sorry was too busy working so I could pay for the panel. The total rework came in around $38,122.19. I took advantage of both Garmin and Aspen hefty rebates that were running, got the second Aspen at a local sales rep special rate (PM me and I will tell you what that was all about) and pre-purchased the hardware directly (i.e. I floated the money) and held the hardware for installation. In the end, the cost included; an Aspen 2000, GTN 650, PSE 8000BT, ST-670 (single cue FD), re-worked ASI, EI Tach/MP gauges, JPI-830 (another rebate deal) and all new wiring harnesses. Don't be afraid to ask for a quote and don't accept an estimate! Let them have the plane to look it over for the quote. Here is the rest of the panel:

[Marauder]

I should add the best part of the panel are the IPCs I do every 6 months. I love watching the CFII fail stuff so I can go switch to the redundant hardware.

He finally wised up to the way to power off the Aspens completely and now puts me into true partial panel mode.