tonyk628 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Posted February 8, 2014 Its been listed for sale for about 2 months between TAP, ect now its on ebay... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Mooney-201-M201J-/301091956731?forcerrptr=true&hash=item461a7aa7fb&item=301091956731&pt=Motors_Aircraft Quote
wishboneash Posted February 8, 2014 Report Posted February 8, 2014 Interesting thing is that there is a Century IIIB autopilot which is not mentioned in the ad. Quote
Cruiser Posted February 8, 2014 Report Posted February 8, 2014 evidently no one wants a runout engine, non-GPS, old radios, basic instrument panel and a Century A/P that probably doesn't work in a plane that could use new paint and interior that had been invovled in an off airport landing resulting in substantial damage. Quote
Marauder Posted February 8, 2014 Report Posted February 8, 2014 Looks like it was wrecked pretty bad in 1983. Quote
BigTex Posted February 8, 2014 Report Posted February 8, 2014 Basically plan on replacing the engine... It's at TBO. No GPS/WAAS or auto pilot. So expect to add an additional $60K to add to that price plus what's found the first year to bring it up to what most of something you'd want to fly. So if you don't have a $100K budget, I'd pass. Quote
chrisk Posted February 8, 2014 Report Posted February 8, 2014 evidently no one wants a runout engine, non-GPS, old radios, basic instrument panel and a Century A/P that probably doesn't work in a plane that could use new paint and interior that had been invovled in an off airport landing resulting in substantial damage. Aside from the damage history, it compares well to many "F" models and some folks still buy those. Quote
BigTex Posted February 8, 2014 Report Posted February 8, 2014 It really doesn't matter what model of Mooney you're looking at. These planes are purchased for travel. Which means a GPS (WAAS perferred) and an auto pilot. If they have neither, it will be hard to sell. In fact at last years MAPA convention, Jim Garrison said that they automatically installs GNS 430's in any aircraft so they can sell them. If these two items are not critical, then maybe there's other aircraft better suited for your mission. Quote
chrisk Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 My point was: at the price point of this plane, there are plenty of older Mooneys (C,E,F) that sell. I suspect most don't have a WAAS GPS and half probably have had the Brittan auto pilot removed. These are nice to have items, but not essential. You can fly IFR with a VOR and ILS. And I have even gotten direct routing from controllers by asking for it and mentioning I have a handheld GPS for situational awareness. It's not that no one wants a plane with this equipment. But it is probably fair to say most J's have better equipment and this one. And if your looking for a J, this might be low on the list. Having said that, my plane has both a WAAS GPS and an autopilot. For me, they were either in the plane when I bought it, or it was factored into the price (at install price). And it is why I didn't buy a plane for $35K. 1 Quote
bnicolette Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 My point was: at the price point of this plane, there are plenty of older Mooneys (C,E,F) that sell. I suspect most don't have a WAAS GPS and half probably have had the Brittan auto pilot removed. These are nice to have items, but not essential. You can fly IFR with a VOR and ILS. And I have even gotten direct routing from controllers by asking for it and mentioning I have a handheld GPS for situational awareness. It's not that no one wants a plane with this equipment. But it is probably fair to say most J's have better equipment and this one. And if your looking for a J, this might be low on the list. I have to agree Chris. I owned my J for 3 years and roughly 300 hours and believe it or not I did it without an IFR GPS. I know they're nice to have but I bet for the majority of folks out there they won't increase the utility one bit. Most will use them to shoot an IFR approach on a VFR day for practice. My GTN-mini (iPad) took me everywhere. :-) (I'm gonna take heat for those statements.............commencing ducking posture) That being said, I still wouldn't go after this J even at that price. In order to bring it up to where a comparable airplane is selling for with everything already done would not make financial sense. 2 Quote
Marauder Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 My point was: at the price point of this plane, there are plenty of older Mooneys (C,E,F) that sell. I suspect most don't have a WAAS GPS and half probably have had the Brittan auto pilot removed. These are nice to have items, but not essential. You can fly IFR with a VOR and ILS. And I have even gotten direct routing from controllers by asking for it and mentioning I have a handheld GPS for situational awareness. It's not that no one wants a plane with this equipment. But it is probably fair to say most J's have better equipment and this one. And if your looking for a J, this might be low on the list. Having said that, my plane has both a WAAS GPS and an autopilot. For me, they were either in the plane when I bought it, or it was factored into the price (at install price). And it is why I didn't buy a plane for $35K. I flew my F under IFR with only a dual ILS capability for 22 out of the 23 years I owned it (yeah, I know, I had a LORAN and ADF on board -- but they were for ballast). And like Chris above, I got a fair number of direct routing with the "VFR GPS" in the remarks section (I don't think ever without being in radar coverage though). The only thing I would consider an upgrade that I did during that timeframe was to add a capable autopilot during the 90s. Not that I needed it, but I felt with 2 small kids in the plane, I wanted to give them a chance if I became incapacitated. My wife learned the basics of how to engage it and how to talk on the radio. Fast forward to December 2012. I added the PFD/MFD and a WAAS GPS. I would never go back! The decrease in workload (after the initial learning curve) and the integration with the AP makes this a completely different plane to own and fly. Sent using Tapatalk 1 Quote
benpilot Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 Better to pay a bit more for a plane with a decent IFR Garmin GPS and autopilot without a run out engine. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 I have to agree Chris. I owned my J for 3 years and roughly 300 hours and believe it or not I did it without an IFR GPS. I know they're nice to have but I bet for the majority of folks out there they won't increase the utility one bit. Most will use them to shoot an IFR approach on a VFR day for practice. My GTN-mini (iPad) took me everywhere. :-) (I'm gonna take heat for those statements.............commencing ducking posture) . <heat on> There is a lot of airports out there with only GPS approaches and I'll bet you your next plane with have IFS GPS <heat off> Quote
tonyk628 Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Posted February 9, 2014 I don't need a GPS it's a nice to have but I tend to agree with what everyone is saying here price vs runout, ect. It's a shame this thing is probably worth more dead than alive.... Quote
BigTex Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 This plane has no reserve and no bids so it might be worth the $32K qualifying bid with the expectation you'll need to hang a new engine on it. Quote
bnicolette Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 Jim Garrison said that they automatically installs GNS 430's in any aircraft so they can sell them. I think if they actually do that they are doing a huge disservice to the seller and prospective buyers. So they are essentially increasing the cost of the airplane by $10K which may be enough to take a prospective buyer over his budgeted amount and would not be buying an otherwise possibly great airplane that "may" have fit his mission profile. I say let the buyer decide if they want to put that extra money into the airplane. If the airplane is really a solid machine it will sell regardless. 1 Quote
scottfromiowa Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 I think if they actually do that they are doing a huge disservice to the seller and prospective buyers. So they are essentially increasing the cost of the airplane by $10K which may be enough to take a prospective buyer over his budgeted amount and would not be buying an otherwise possibly great airplane that "may" have fit his mission profile. I say let the buyer decide if they want to put that extra money into the airplane. If the airplane is really a solid machine it will sell regardless. I hear ya, BUT the guy sells planes for a living and they don't move without 'em so.... Quote
DAVIDWH Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 Caveat Emptor: Planes, tires, batteries and women. As the old philosopher once said, "You only get what you pay for". 1 Quote
KSMooniac Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 I hear ya, BUT the guy sells planes for a living and they don't move without 'em so.... I agree with this, and would add the observation that AAA typically sells the more premium Mooneys, and not very many vintage ones (even nicer ones) unless they perhaps take one in on trade. You'll hardly ever see a $40-50k Mooney in their inventory, especially an early un-upgraded J, so adding a 430W to a higher priced J+ isn't as much of a hit, percentage-wise. Quote
KSMooniac Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 Hopefully there will be a turning point in this market when it does make sense to get run-out airframes without upgrades that are otherwise structurally sound and corrosion-free and bring them back to life without being upside down by a large margin before all of these are gone... 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted February 9, 2014 Report Posted February 9, 2014 so adding a 430W to a higher priced J+ isn't as much of a hit, percentage-wise. Especially if it's used. Quote
jetdriven Posted February 10, 2014 Report Posted February 10, 2014 Well it will sell and I can't see why it wouldn't at 42K, unless it's like those other ebay planes with 2' of wing ripped off and the engine doesn't have mention of a prop strike etc. Or flooded for a week. remember Jerrry Pressley, his airplanes are worth nothing. But seriously folks, 42K for the plane, 30K for an overhaul, 10K 430 GPS, and ten grand for paint. Now you got a J model for 92K with a new engine, paint, and a WAAS GPS. Plus you don't have to buy any of that right now. Quote
bnicolette Posted February 10, 2014 Report Posted February 10, 2014 Well it will sell and I can't see why it wouldn't at 42K, unless it's like those other ebay planes with 2' of wing ripped off and the engine doesn't have mention of a prop strike etc. Or flooded for a week. remember Jerrry Pressley, his airplanes are worth nothing. But seriously folks, 42K for the plane, 30K for an overhaul, 10K 430 GPS, and ten grand for paint. Now you got a J model for 92K with a new engine, paint, and a WAAS GPS. Plus you don't have to buy any of that right now. Don't forget the prop ..........maybe a tank reseal/bladders.........maybe some corrosion (appears it's been outside).........and possibly new windows. 92K + maybe another 12K? Just some other variables to consider. What could you realistically get out of a 77J? Quote
jetdriven Posted February 10, 2014 Report Posted February 10, 2014 Usually the bottom of the market has been around ~50K with a completely runout 1977-78 J. 60-65K with a 1400 hr engine. It's probably on ebay because there's a reason it can't be sold on ASO, TAP, or controller. Quote
BigTex Posted February 10, 2014 Report Posted February 10, 2014 Sadly it appears the bottom price for a runout 1977 201 is less than $32k. No bids as yet. 1 Quote
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