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My wife and I just had this discussion on a flight Saturday. When we put in the GFC500 I didn't add the yaw damper, couldn't justify the extra cost. In cruise I typically stick my foot/boot in between the rudder pedal and side panel to keep it straight and not have to keep constant pressure with my leg. It would be nice to just let the AP do that work. I still might add it one day.

im getting the Aerocruze 100 for my m20e, gfc500 is nice just don't want to spend 10amu more

For those of you with the GFC500 AP, how many of you have already had to replace the servos with Mod1 servos? If you haven't had issues (but have affected SN servos), when are you planning on getting the servos replaced...do you replace them now, towards the end of the warranty period, or a specific time in between? From the service bulletin you have until 5/4/2028 to have these replaced under warranty. https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=y ... iNr8uLLUA6 GSA28 extended warranty service bulletin info link if you need it. From Garmin FAQ: How will my Warranty be impacted? The standard warranty applies after the exchange of the servos. 6 months after the exchange OR the balance of your existing 2-year warranty applies, whichever is longer.

People that have an Aspen and GFC500 will have either a G5 or a GI275 to control the AP. So you can either install a G5/275 that will control the AP and keep the aspen. Or get rid of the Aspen and go for 2x G5 or 275s.

Finally got my GAD43e upgrade completed. No additional wires needed in my case. One hiccup in that on the GAD43e configuration page on the G500, the installer initially selected "King KAS 297" for the type, but it had to be set to the "King KAS297B". When I flew home I couldn't get it to work, then after about 30 minutes of digging online I figured out the KAS297B seemed to be necessary. So I flew back over and the installer was able to update that and now it works. I love the level-off at altitude, it's super smooth. And as I age (in 25 to 35 years!) I expect that will prevent me from overshooting an altitude. I wasn't sure how it would handle the altitude hold after level-off at a preselected altitude, but it does actually turn on the altitude hold mode on the autopilot. For operation, wen you select an altitude or vertical speed on the G500, it notifies you to hold the button to select altitude capture or V/S set and capture. When you do press and hold the vertical speed, it will set the vertical speed to your current, and then you twist the knob to adjust it. Really looking forward to selecting an altitude at a waypoint, looking at the vertical speed required on the GTN750, setting that in the G500 and watching it fly me there. It's not actually a vertical nav system like if I had the GFC500 autopilot, but it's still pretty great!!

This '96 MSE that has been on controller.com has an Aspen, one GI275 next to it, and the GFC500 autopilot. How were they able to do that? I also have an interest in this. https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/245297647/1996-mooney-m20j-mse-piston-single-aircraft

Will need to replace the Aspen with a G5, GI275, or G3x system for the GFC500 autopilot. If you are wanting to keep the Aspen your choices drop down to Aerocruze 100, S-Tec 55x/3100. Also, is the navigator a GNS430W? You might have some limitations if the GPS navigator is not WAAS.

Had a gfc500 in a F model. Worked outstanding. Not sure what you need to run it though. I had a g3x and a 275 and the 650. Not sure which one “runs” it though.

The simplest gfc500 is going to be pitch and bank (no trim or yaw) but you will still need at least a g5 to run it (and a controller). That or the aerocruze are basically your only options.

On an M20F your choice is really limited to a Garmin GFC500. (https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/604257/#additional) Maybe . . . an Aerocruze 100 (https://www.duncanaviation.aero/news/duncan-aviation-has-stc-to-install-bendixking-aerocruze-100-autopilot-in-mooney-m20s)

Does that happen very often? I had the impression in US you are required to have VOR checks and the magnetic variation at VOR station is freezed. So the bias between GPS Track-To-Fix (TF leg) and VOR Course-To-Fix (CF leg) is very minimal In any case, you legally required to carry VOR if the plate require it for final segment (FAS leg) and monitor VOR guidance on final segment to stay within the protected area (or go-missed which can be done using GPS RNAV1, or on magnetic vector or heading to altitude) How you display, fiddle with buttons, or how you hook auto-pilot is largely irrelevant? especially, in Part91 where you are the only person in the cockpit These days digital autopilots use "GPS-aiding" to intercept VLOC for pure conventional VOR, LOC and ILS. So I can't see why pilot can do this on raw data while handflying? I recall GFC500 can't fly conventionel ILS with coupled glide when GPS is jammed, no LPV, well no ILS for you time to go back to heading and vertical speed modes

Hi all. New MS’er here. Just acquired a ‘66E earlier this year. As part of cleaning up and upgrading some nits and nats through my first couple months of ownership, I decided to install two new GI-275s and a GFC500 (the dangers of saying “might as well” while the plane is cracked open). The plane currently has the original stock E yokes, but installing the required AP switches in the stock yokes would require some clumsy placement. Does anyone know where I can source modern 201-style yokes + shafts to replace the old yokes? I reached out to Mooney directly inquiring about the retrofit yoke package (p/n 940021-507) but they haven’t responded to me and not sure if they’re making them anymore. Is eBay my only shot here?

Currently on the crossing. Track my ident CGJOG or my inreach here https://share.garmin.com/TylerG Posted a couple of photos. I have some great videos if someone knows the best way for me to upload those. My approach to Nuuk, Greenland, will be the most memorable of my life. Flying with a high broken cloud layer, the sun shining through, flying over a low cloud layer, and a fog bank over the entire runway except for the threshold. Amazing and beautiful. The IRL Flight (I did this with more stops than I would have if I had gone alone or with a partner closer to my age. My dad wanted more breaks) Leg 1: CZBB (Vancouver) to CYSF (Stony Rapids) This was a quick fuel stop. I topped off the tanks to avoid fuel in Rankin, where it's only sold by the barrel. Leg 2: CYRT (Rankin Inlet) We stayed over here. No fuel purchase. This is the stop I would have skipped and just flown a long day CZBB - CYSF - CYFB Leg 3: CYFB (Frobisher Bay/Iqaluit) Here, we only required one barrel on top of what was left in the tanks to get us to Nuuk. Avoid the FBO if you can and just have the fuel guy (separate from the FBO) pump your fuel. You do not need your own pump here. Flight planning from here to Nuuk was easy. I filed a direct routing, and they gave me that. Leg 4: BGGH (Nuuk) I would have gone CYFB—BIRK on the way across and skipped Greenland. GJOG has the legs to do it with an hour+ for reserve and a slight headwind. This was the most beautiful approach of my life, primarily due to the sun shining through different cloud layers and the fog bank over most of the runway. The airport here was recently built. Everything was new. Clean and nice. Paperwork: I filed through Foreflight. For customs, I emailed the airport an hour before our departure, informed them of our arrival time, and attached copies of our passports. Customs was ready for us when we arrived, and it went smoothly. He even called us a cab to our hotel. Leg 4: BIRK (Reykjavik) You file specific waypoints across the icecap and onto Iceland. When you send your plan to "flights" in Foreflight, it will tell you if it is valid before submitting. Mine was as follows: Nuuk - Bamam - Y47 - DA - Nasop - Nonro - Igan - Birk Paperwork: Filed through Foreflight. I didn't notify the airport ahead of time. Customs has a small office located next to the FBO parking. It was quick and easy. They looked at our passports and filled in a customs form. Leg 5: EGPO (Stornoway) We spent nearly the entire crossing in the white room, so we caught up on a podcast about Vikings. We chose Stornoway over Wick because we have our own survival gear and family in Stornoway. Paperwork: It was a bit more involved. You have to submit a form through the airport here to request permission to land and file a GAR report to customs here. The GAR is similar to the USA eAPIS. This did make the arrival smooth. We were approved through customs before landing and didn't need to see an agent of any kind. The guy from the FBO said we were cleared, and we went straight to grab our taxi. Hi Mooney Pilots, I am looking for any pilots who have made the crossing recently. Flying my FIKI-certified "Standing Ovation" with Monroy Long Range Tanks from Canada across the Atlantic to Scotland and back again. When: August 2025 (UPDATED) Where: Vancouver, BC to Wick, Scotland. We will likely make the crossing from Iqaluit (Frobisher Bay) Tentative Flight Plan: Iqaluit - Nuuk - Reykjavik - Faroe Islands - Wick Who: I will be making the journey with my pops (retired private pilot) What: I would love any advice from experienced pilots. Everything from flight planning to gear selection. I want this flight to be as safe and successful as possible. Open to hiring a consultant. My Kit: Avionics/Radios Dual G3X touch (10” and 7”) GI260 AOA indicator (displayed on G3X) Garmin advanced engine indication system EIS G5 backup AI 4 axis GFC500 autopilot + controller (Roll/Pitch/Pitch Trim/Yaw) Electronic Stability Protection (ESP) Return-to-Level button Takeoff/Go-around (TOGA) button Smart Glide Button GTN650xi WASS GPS/NAV/COM1 GNC355 WASS GPS/COM2 GMA35 remote audio panel (Telligence™ Voice Command and Bluetooth) GTX 345DR Remote-mount ADS-B "In"/"Out" with XPDR diversity antenna GDL 52R Remote-mount SiriusXM®/ADS-B Receiver Additional Equipment TKS Weeping Wing FIKI certified De-Icing System Built-in 4-place oxygen CiES fuel senders (for precise fuel indication) Microkit Landing Height System (w/ gear warning system) Speed Brakes Tanis Engine + Battery Preheat System I have been getting a lot of great advice and feedback. To ensure the whole community can benefit from it, I will post it here below as I go. I will also post the trip once it happens. Flight Plannning I will start the trip from Vancouver, BC, then cross at Iqaluit (Frobisher Bay) CYFB - Nuuk BGGH - Reykjavik BIRK - Faroe Isl EKVG (if WX Permits, low prob) - Scotland I have created a Google Sheet Flight Plan Read this North Atlantic International GA Ops Manual it clarifies equipment and regulatory questions 7000 VFR Sqwak EU Safety and Survival Raft and Immersion Suit You can rent Rent your raft and immersion suit from Far North Aviation; they provide both pick-it-up and drop-off on either side of the pond (Goose Bay and Wik only) You can purchase Winslow Ultra-Light Offshore weighs 32 lbs Mustang Ocean Commander Immersion Suit (5-8 lbs*) Survival Kit 4 liters of water (in kit for emerg only) Food (in kit for emerg only) Parachute Flares High Powered Laser Pointer Emergency Blanket Down sleeping bag Hook Knife (attached to suit) Pocket Knife Paracord Jetboil Electronics Garmin InReach Mini w/waterprrof case No HF - The route Iqaluit CYFB - Nuuk BGGH - Reykjavik BIRK is in VHF range and doesn't require HF N America and EU databases for both my Garmin equipment and Foreflight Admin Regulations

This is a sad and frustrating one. Bought my 1967 (1968 serial) M20F in December. The last 5 months, it spent most of its time in the avionics shop getting a beautiful upgrade, all Garmin - G3X, 355, GFC500, radio panel, second radio, transponder, G5, new panel itself. Bruce Jaeger installed the Mooney Spatial interior and reconditioned my upper plastics. A local upholstery shop made beautiful new seats. Mechanic installed new PowerFlow exhaust, side windows, hockey pucks, steering horn, and more. - break - Thursday, the aircraft had its first post-maintenance flight. That afternoon, my mechanic and a CFI took it out for a beautiful ~30 min flight. The 14 month old (overhauled) 80 hour 200hp IO-360 A1B motor did a great job. So did the avionics. They both came back with great reviews and the avionics FDR showed fantastic numbers. Three hours later, I took it out for a solo run. Soon after takeoff, I noticed my climb performance wasn't all that great and my temps were rising. I should have turned around immediately - please believe me that I have self-roasted enough on this one. It took me maybe a full minute to decide to head back - and I didn't even take the most immediate route back, making a big fat pattern. Again, I've roasted myself plenty so please be gentle with me... though I did at least make it back to the runway. My climb performance, over the course of a couple of minutes, went from +250fpm to -350fpm with speeds below 100mph. My altitude capped out at 700 ft. I'll let these Savvy charts and comment from Savvy detail the actual stats. 4 SavvyAnalysis charts posted in the images below - 2 of the pre-incident flight, showing great numbers. 2 of the incident flight, showing nightmares. The only difference is that the second table in the images I alternate between altitude & airspeed in one, fuel flow & fuel pressure in the other. You'll see that the temps were basically fine while rolling down the runway... but almost immediately got out of hand in the air. CHT temps ran away, likely causing the oil temp runaway, likely causing the low oil pressure. Fuel flow wasn't amazing but it was livable. Manifold pressure was plenty. Analysis from Savvy: Cyls 1 & 2 suffered a pre-ignition likely detonation event from an overly lean mixture, suggest carefully checking for any debris/dirt in the #1 and #2 injectors. Max FF is a bit low but okay and likely not yet calibrated, so FF may indicate a bit lower than actual till k-Factor is properly calibrated. CHTs 1 & 2 above redline for 7 min peaking to CHT2 737F and CHT1 680F Oil temp above redline by 55F for 6 min peaking at 297F Oil pressure below limits for 7 min, dropping to 46 psi What the team has reported, thus far: No intake blockage. No intake leaks. No exhaust blockage. Running the fuel pump with the injectors sticking in cups showed equal and consistent flow, indicating injector blockage unlikely. White paper test showed no easily discernible signs of Jet A. Exhaust tubes for cylinders 1 & 2 dyed blue from heat. Intake tubes for 1 & 2 show heat damage near the heads. Cylinders 1&2 show obvious signs of detonation. Pistons 1&2 appear sand-blasted. Left mag 25 degrees. Right mag 27 degrees. The successful flight earlier in the day was entirely operated on the right fuel tank; immediately after start-up, I exclusively ran on the left fuel tank. This introduces some suspicion on whatever was coming from the left fuel tank. The cause itself remains unknown. The mystery is driving me mad. The (probable) loss of a sub-100 hour engine is driving me mad. And the flight itself attempted to kill me. The current plan: Send fuel from each tank to the lab for anlysis Drain the oil into a 5 gallon pail with a paint strainer or 1000 micron (or tighter) screen. Observe the debris. Observe the oil. Glittery silvery oil is typically fine aluminum and may not have damaged other components. Chunkier metal flakes are usually steel and will have damaged other engine components. Do not discard the oil. Send oil to the lab for analysis Scope all 4 cylinders. Detail the condition of each cylinder, piston, valve. Since there was detonation, pull connecting rods and check the bearings (start with the hottest ones). The bearing insert will tell you if there is contamination. They would be impregnated with foreign material. If the bearings and oil are not a mess, discard #1 and #2 cylinders, replace. If questionable, discard #1 and #2, send #3 and #4 for inspection If bearings and oil look bad, send entire engine out Check age and inspect interior of all fuel hoses in all areas, including from tank, connections to the transducer, fuel splitter, etc. Also check for blockage and debris. Inspect inside the fuel flow divider. We have seen debris in there that affects 2 or 3 cylinders - or sometimes just 1 cylinder but it changes cylinder from time to time. Inspect fuel tanks for debris, growth, contamination, etc. Inspect fuel servo. Pull finger screen from servo, inspect. Inspect all screens. Pull the manifold off and inspect. Mechanic wants to do some ground runs before tearing things down. I'm really upset about this. Everything was beautiful and perfect... and just seconds into my first flight in this aircraft in months... the engine tore itself up. The financials of this will be a significant challenge... and if we never get the root cause mystery solved, then how do I know that anything is resolved? Just groaning out loud at this point after multiple nights of terrible sleep.

I think there is a SMALL market for an "over-improved" E or F, and the right buyer will recognize value in one with an asking price that stands above the field and even flirts with J territory. I say that as an 18+ year owner of a '77 J that was looking for a modified E or F originally, but stretched to get into my J and I'm happy I did. It is of course entirely possible to modify an E or F to mimic a J in just about every meaningful way, but they will never be a true J in the market, and thus the value will always hit a ceiling. The debate here, IMO, comes down to value for the dollar and for the right buyer (like Greg in this case) it might make more sense to buy an over-improved $150k E vs. a $150k J. Greg certainly knows the Mooney line and he stated his mission is 2 people + bags and moderate distance flying, not all the way across the country since he can just hop on a company plane and do that now. In this case, a $150k E that has been thoroughly modernized with a panel full of Garmin including a GFC500 autopilot done by a meticulous owner/IA, yet still retains the awesome J-bar gear so he doesn't have to fret about actuator gears and other tidbits I'm thinking about. It has all of the J exterior mods so it is likely faster than my plane too. Comparing to my early J, I've done all of the exterior mods/upgrades to later specs and have an awesome paint job. I've got nice Bravo seats (including rear buckets instead of the bench), good windows and sidewalls, but I have a vintage panel + GNS530W/430W and STEC30 autopilot. I'm insured for $175k but wouldn't sell it for that if asked. I still have things I want to do like the panel, primarily. For Greg's mission, I'd say he's getting a turnkey simple speedster that meets his needs for quite a bit less than he could get my J without a modern panel, and a whole lot less for another J with a modern panel. There is also an adage to consider that you're buying the previous owner as much as the plane itself, and in this case, that is a very good thing! Having said that, a J offers more potential utility/flexibility due to more cabin space, and especially if you can take one or both back seats out. It comes down to how much that utility is worth it to you... would you pay $50k more for a truly equivalent J vs. a modernized E? If you never put people in back, why pay more? I'd rather take that extra money and buy a toy plane to add to the hangar.

If this was an F model, it would be a lot easier to justify. The E that I'm looking at has a GFC500, 3 GI275s, GTN 750xi, EDM 900, GNC 215, GYX 345, Ceis Fuel senders, fuel bladders, Plane Power alternator, SkyTech Starter, Dual Electronic mags, Hartzell Top Prop, plus lots of other goodies.

Nice! Similar incoming on my panel. 2 g3x and adding a 650 , w/ audio and transponder remote mount. Also gfc500, Around $ 90k . Geesh. The last panel upgrade I did , did yield full cost at sell, silver linings I suppose.

I know there’s a million page thread out there on this, but since Garmin released the gain addendum to supposedly correct this issue, what’s everyone’s result? I have found very little change. Everything works great on my AP except climbing through turbulence in ias mode. It will chase the speed by 10 knots. If bumpy, I initially climb in VSP. I had my avionics guys update the gain ad per the Garmin SB. No noticeable change.

Hi guys. We are planning our panel makeover for our M20C. With our GFC500, we are trying to decide if we should add a yaw damper. Is it worth it? Does it hold rudder in on climb-out? If someone could let me know that’d be great. Thanks!

I've started getting quotes for a GFC500 autopilot for my '67F. I already have the 355 GPS, 345 transponder, dual G5 install. I just got the first quote. The shop quoted the GFC500 install with 3 servos - pitch, roll and pitch trim. The pitch trim adds about $3,400 in hardware cost. Unsure of the additional labor to install pitch trim but total labor (including pitch trim) was 60 hours. Labor cost sounds about right to me but I'm no expert. Total parts quote was just shy of $16k. Is it worth the extra 3k (plus labor) to add the pitch trim? Also, if there is a servo for both pitch and roll, is a third servo actually required for the pitch trim? Again, I'm no expert, just asking questions. I'm also considering the Aerocruze but don't really want this thread to become a Garmin vs BK contest. :-)

Will they all play nicely together? Looking at finishing out instrument and trying to decide on best panel upgrades for ifr flying. Really like the ifd540 along with ease of replacing the g530w with it. That may be fine to get me where I want with the existing kap 150 and associated AI and hsi. I spoiled myself though and flew with g1000 for a while and going to ne hard to go back.

Your post is pretty thought-provoking for me. I don't think I agree about it (PTRM) being bad to include in an autopilot, on balance. I can see the other side of it. E.g. You point out it is has a few potentially sinister failure modes. OTOH so does flying a coupled approach without an autothrottle. I suppose I'm generally pretty aware of the trim state, and sometimes use the AP to trim for me. E.g. doing engine runs (working out power settings) or slow flight... I hit ALT or adjust power and I am aware it's trimming for me. But sometimes it can do things you aren't specifically thinking of that moment, like on a level-off. That would still happen with only an elevator (PTCH) axis. And if you get way behind it takes longer to undo. Intersting thread. It actually had never occurred to me that a GFC500 or GFC700 would be installed without a trim servo.

Having the AP trim you is a nice workload saver. It's also really more elegant. Do you want the elevator servo potentially constantly pushing on something? Maybe a tech will weigh in, but seems like wear on that servo. Getting a GFC500 and skipping that channel seems retrograde to me... Leaving capability on the table. If you really needed to pinch pennies I agree with the above, at least lay the groundwork with wiring. And if you install the capstan, you might as well install the motor. Data point: My AP went out recently due to failed PTRM channel servo. Still wouldn't not have it. AP out a week to get fixed. The Garmin design is nice in that the clutch/capstan is separate from the servo motor, easier to fix quickly. HTH

I'll answer your second question first. Yes, a third servo is required for autopilot pitch trim. The pitch servo acts on the elevator push rod, the pitch trim servo acts on the trim mechanism. If you don't install pitch trim the GFC500 will give you a PTRIM advisory on the G5 with an up or down arrow to tell you which way to manually trim the airplane as flight conditions change. If the pitch trim servo is installed the GFC500 trims pitch automatically and you never see the PTRIM advisory unless the pitch trim servo fails. Where this might make a difference is how the airplane responds when you disengage the A/P on an instrument approach. With the pitch trim servo installed, the airplane will be in trim for your current airspeed and there will be no change in control forces or nose position when you disengage the A/P. If you don't have a pitch trim servo, your manual trimming may be slightly off and you might experience a pitch bobble or excursion when you disengage the A/P. If you're keeping up well with the manual trim this is minimized, but may be an issue in a high workload approach. Whether this is a concern or worth the extra expense is dependent on your assessment of the value of the relative risk mitigation of automatic trim versus manual trim. Either way will work fine with the proper awareness and training. If you're used to manually trimming your airplane then the PTRIM advisories are just added information to augment what you're already doing. But to take advantage of the "Gucci" features and capabilities of the GFC500 you'd want to have the pitch trim servo installed.

Garmin supply a list of the parts you need to install a GFC500 in your plane. These are standard hardware items, nothing special, but you will struggle to find them all in one place and end up spending hours finding them and pay many times more than they cost for shipping. I've done the homework and ordered from reputable suppliers, let me know if you want a set. If you have a KFC150 or 200, you are allowed to use most of the roll servo components and do not need new pulleys. I also have a surplus Garmin 'roll servo install kit'. This will allow you to get a head start on the roll installation, it is probably the most tedious part of the M20K installation. Make sure your installer is on board with all of the above, some shops don't like you bringing the steak and asking them to grill it for you. Aerodon