Jeff_S

Having recently gone through this decision process I'll tell you how I analyzed it. Then you have to do the research and decide for yourself. For me, one thing most people don't talk about is the actual height of the panel. If you get into a DX or pre-G1000 Ovation, you'll notice that the panel physically takes up about 2" more in height. Compared to the J I used to fly, I found this to cause a significant degradation in visibility especially on the ground. Sure, it's not a total deal-breaker and something I could have gotten used to, but my wife felt even more strongly about it. The adjustable seats can help somewhat but then your head starts getting pretty close to the ceiling and your legs start butting up against the yoke, at least they did for me. I have a short torso but longer legs, so that may have contributed. I really like the visibility of the lower G1000 panels. As to the path to WAAS and ADS-B, I'm sure you've read through the other linked thread shown earlier here so you've seen my analysis there. I'm confident enough that Mooney will have a solution next year, and even with the current set-up (non-WAAS and S-TEC 55x) I love the integration of the G1000. So good luck...there are some nice models out there just waiting for a happy new owner.

Cool pics...that must be a great benefit of working for the AOPA. Are those going to appear in the Pilot magazine anytime soon?

Wow, such vitriol after making an innocent suggestion. And as I read through the posts, I don't think I was the only one who offered up the idea of a J. My personal financial situation had no bearing on my comment...my first plane was a Piper Warrior so I know all about budgets. My point was to expand the OP's thinking about which planes fit his mission and not let a current budget number be too restrictive. Who among us hasn't had a budget in mind for a big purchase, like a house, and then all of a sudden the PERFECT house comes along that costs more? Where there's a will there's a way, I guess was my only point.

My J would reliably settle in at 6 quarts on the dipstick, and I would only add it 1/2 quart at at time when it got to 5.5. I did have the M20 air/oil separator installed on that engine and I think it helped keep oil off the belly and in the crankcase. I know that not all industry experts agree with using such a device...Mike Busch in particular seems to rail against them whenever he gets the chance...but it was on the plane when I bought it and I never had any trouble with it. I'm still learning the tendencies of the Ovation. I just finished the first oil change after break-in, but I went 24 hours with only 1 quart added during that process, and it seemed to like hanging out at 6 quarts as well. I will reserve judgment on that until I've had a few more cycles.

I think you need to look at a J-model as your starting point. Even if you have to expand your purchase envelope into the $80K range, you are buying a very solid and trusted airplane which will give you more interior room and the best efficiency of any aircraft ever made. The C & E models will probably be too tight if you truly want to take four adults. Even a J is pushing this in my view, but it's manageable as long as you don't try to make your flight legs too long.

Geez Jose, I'm not saying that WAAS isn't great. I know the benefits, as I had them in my J. One of the ones you left out is that technically with a non-WAAS system, I have to use an airport with ground based approach as a legal alternate to an IFR flight plan, and I'm supposed to check my VOR receivers every month for accuracy. (Would be curious to see how many folks actually do THIS!) And if you've read my posts you see that Mooney HAS given a target date of Q2 next year for this. Now, that's a target date, and we all know that can vary, but they do acknowledge the situation. I feel confident that enough people will pressure them to get this done. I'm confident that as all these solutions evolve there will be something better than the $70K swap-out to a GFC700 system. (Of course, if they decided to make that a $30K update I'd be all over it in a heartbeat...I've heard that the GFC700 is an awesome autopilot.)

Panel space aside, just adding a GTN 650 doesn't make much sense I don't think. If what you really need is the WAAS position source for ADS-B, then the GDL-88 is a more elegant and obvious solution. The G1000 already has the interface elements to take external traffic sources, presumably including that of the GDL-88, so you would get the full benefits of ADS-B and still have a totally integrated solution. The only thing you'd really be missing is the WAAS approaches of LPV and LNAV/VNAV minimums. But this reporter has noted, the Synthetic Vision capabilities of even this non-WAAS system are pretty sweet and cover all the needs of the average IFR flyer. I have to say that I am a total convert to the benefits of the G1000. The more I learn and use it the more I love it, so any solution I deploy would have to factor that in.

Jose, I think you're wrong on this one, because the Mooney factory has told me explicitly who is responsible, and it is them. Garmin supplies the equipment, true, but it is up to Mooney to certify any changes to the installation. So this one sits squarely in Mooney's camp. But from all indications I have received, they understand the situation and there is a big enough base of planes in this configuration that they are motivated (fingers crossed) to address it. If the solution is as simple as a GDL-88 and new transponder, that would not be ideal, but would be workable. As I've noted elsewhere, even the current non-WAAS setup, if equipped with the SVT upgrade, is a pretty darn good approach capability. Keep the green Flight Path Marker on the end of the runway and you've got a great approximation of a glide path.

Jose, it's not even clear that this is an approved upgrade path, although presumably it would be. But this route would require swapping out all new MFD device, GPS units, antennae, auto-pilot and auto-pilot servos. It's a $70K operation based on latest estimates. Upgrading the existing equipment should be simply swapping out the GPS units, antennae, and making some software changes. After all, the S-TEC 55X is certified with other WAAS receivers already so the fault isn't in the autopilot mechanism. I can wait a few months to save tens of thousands of dollars!

I exchanged messages with Paul Keener at Mooney last week on this issue. He informed me that they still don't have the official project spun up yet, but are looking at getting going in the 1st Quarter of 2015. He suggested I check back in by the end of Q1 to get the status. We all need to just keep hounding them so they don't lose track of it, with everything else they've got going on.

StinkBug (what a handle!), I can't tell from your post if you are first-time buyer or not. I'm guessing you are, as your questions seem like you're new to the process. And if you felt strongly enough to walk away from a plane during pre-buy then you seem to be pretty savvy to begin with. Many folks try as hard as they can to justify a purchase once they get that far. Here is what I would consider when doing a pre-buy far from home, and without knowing any familiar shops or A/Ps in an area. First, get a recommendation from a couple of different sources. If two or three people all say the same thing about a shop/mechanic, that's probably a good indication. Second, while many on the forum may fricassee me for saying this, I don't think an MSC is absolutely required for a pre-buy. If one is convenient and the price is right, great, but I think any good competent shop/mechanic can tell you what you need to know during a pre-buy. That said, there are some good pre-buy checklists on the MAPA website (if you're not a member yet, join). If you get one of these checklists and provide it to your selected shop/mechanic, then the fun begins. A very wise Delta pilot/RV-Builder/Backcountry flier (yes, all that in one person) gave me my first counsel on a pre-buy. There are really two things you want to check: 1) firewall forward 2) corrosion in the known trouble spots (wings, frame, etc.) Firewall forward, a Mooney is just an airplane. It's got a Lycoming or Continental engine, and a good mechanic can tell you if things are solid in that department. Again, there are a few things on a Mooney-specific checklist that you can verify, but overall this is not rocket surgery. Corrosion is something to look for, but again, access panels are access panels. For older Mooneys prior to 1986, pay careful attention to corrosion around the wing roots as there were some known issues there. But wing corrosion, battery box corrosion, etc. can all be found through a standard inspection. Even the beloved shock discs are easily evaluated by checking for play in the gear, looking at the date on the discs themselves, etc. From what I can tell, you seem involved in the process and have a sense of what's right and wrong with an airplane. It shouldn't be too difficult to find a shop/mechanic anywhere you might be looking at an airplane that can give you an honest and thorough appraisal of your prospective ride. Good luck!

Not to be the naysayer here, but low 30's on a Lycoming engine which is no doubt pretty worn in doesn't sound like a problem to me. I say just follow standard starting procedure but yes, do keep RPMs down until the oil has warmed up.

Yes, Austin still owns X-Plane. I would, too, if it helped me fund a Cessna TTX and a new Corvette every couple of years. I didn't buy into the Xavion thing. I've heard others say it's cool, but it seemed like too much tech in the cockpit to me. One more thing to futz with instead of looking outside and enjoying the view.

Your only real solution on the Mac is X-Plane, but it's a good solution, probably the best one available for a personal computer. Go to http://www.x-plane.com to learn more about it. I used it for exactly your same purpose. All you really need is a Joystick, such as the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. You can get a full yoke and throttle quadrant set up for it if you want, but to me that's overkill if you're just trying to practice your scan. There is also a good Mooney M20J model available for purchase from Carenado that you can use. It faithfully reproduces a J cockpit and has 3-D so you can move around in it. It does require some horsepower under the hood, but if you've got a later-model iMac or similar you should be fine. X-Plane also has a cool thing where you can synch it to your iPad running ForeFlight and actually see your flight on ForeFlight. It of course lets you add real-world weather, although it's tied just to current METARs and doesn't accurately show actual storm cells. And it lets you program in various systems failures so you can even practice your emergency procedures. Good luck with it. It's a lot of fun.

That is a nice looking house, and I've flown into Mallard's Landing. With any medium or short-body Mooney it is a fine strip. Not sure if I'd trust it with the Ovation though. On the Zillow link, it shows another house in the neighborhood with a price closer to $1M, but it's about three times the size. As to the deer hunters, coming from Kansas originally I have no philosophical problem with hunting...killed plenty of birds and smaller critters in my day...but I just couldn't bring myself to shoot a deer. They're just too pretty, and probably too closely resemble the horses I grew up training and cherishing.

That announcer sounds a lot like Jony Ive from the Apple videos...which I am sure is no coincidence. He is probably the best known technical designer in the world (most famous, anyway) and that is the vibe they were trying to capture with this video. I liked it!

In conversation yesterday at the NC Mountain fly-in, a compatriot said that he was told by Jerry Chen at OSH that the target price for the M10T was in the $400K range. I would presume this has to come down considerably if they hope to sell many trainers, unless that's just a "rack rate" prior to discounts to big Chinese flight schools. At any rate, we all know that clean-sheet designs and specs change quite a bit from conception to reality, so we just need to see how this plays out. We all have a vested interest in Mooney's long-term success.

I'm thinking that if these M10J's do come to fruition, it could be the ultimate "step-down" plane! I mean, who wouldn't want to get the same speed as an Ovation on 1/3 the fuel burn? I never carry more than one extra person anyway. But the proof is in the pudding, so it will be interesting to see how these move through the certification process.

Awesome to hear...thanks for the update!

Don't get me wrong here, as I am all in favor of Mooney doing what it takes to succeed. There is probably a lot to like about this plane, and much will change in the three years it will take to move through certification (if it can hit the target launch date). But I am reminded of the attempt by Piper to roll out essentially another company's airframe in the LSA category and provide the same level of support and service for that which they provide to their standard metal offerings. That didn't end too well. Cessna also tried a new trainer in the Skycatcher and that didn't end well either. But it's too early to be a naysayer, so for now I say "right on" and let's see what happens. I just hope they don't blow through all their funding on the M10 series before they fix the lack of WAAS/ADS-B problem in my Ovation 3 that I just bought!

We're all waiting to hear more about this new plane. But from everything I've heard, it's targeted as a training plane and not something to eclipse the Acclaim or Ovation 3 models. So I wouldn't get your hopes up for your wish list items!

As to the spinner polish, Mothers works, but the stuff I swear by is Flitz which you can get from any aviation supply house...Aircraft Spruce comes to mind. Flitz is awesome because it requires almost no elbow grease. Just apply it and rub it in a bit, then polish off with a clean cloth. You'll be amazed at how much oxidation comes off. Flitz is also good because you can use it on oxidized paint to restore it.

David, you sound like a ticked-off donor. Otherwise why the vehemence? As long as the group is not fraudulently absconding with other people's money...and aside from one lawsuit that seems frivolous on its merits, I can't find any other evidence to suggest this...then what's the harm in searching? It's never been a crime to seek donations for any cause, even stupid ones, as long as the full disclosure is made. And wouldn't it be great if they actually DID solve the Amelia Earhart mystery? I choose to dare to believe it's possible.

I've read the history I can find. I'm not saying I know everything about this, but from what I can gather the irony is that a lawsuit has been filed claiming they actually DID find the plane and are covering it up. I've seen the video that purports to show the evidence, and it looks pretty benign to me. Never mind the fact that if they HAD found the wreckage, they would have money pouring over them in buckets for all sorts of media deals. So to assert that they hid the finding in order to raise more funds doesn't pass the smell test to me.

C'mon guys, let's dare to dream a little bit. I've read all the findings and I don't believe this group is sensationalizing anything. They describe their theories with the right mixture of facts and conjecture tied to what they've found. The evidence is certainly compelling at any rate, especially the artifacts they've discovered on land. The "suspect sonar signature" doesn't look anything like an airplane to me, but I'm no expert on reading sonograms so who knows. Wouldn't it be cool to put at least this one mystery to bed? Then they can determine who REALLY shot JFK!