PT20J

Naw, a gallon per side every five or six hours is all the R-985s burn. But they drip some. They are fun to fly, but can be a bear in a cross wind. You wheel land them and keep the tail up as long as possible, then get it down as fast as you can. Those twin rudders lose effectiveness as the tail descends and they are blanked out behind the wing and directional control is nil until the tail wheel bites the ground. If a crosswind gust catches you when the tail is midway down differential power is all that will save you. Skip

I was looking at the specs in the M20J service manual and noticed something I never noticed before. In addition to changing the airfoil from root to tip, there is also a geometric twist of -1.5 deg. BTW, I know aerodynamicists are just making educated guesses when they design some of these parameters because I never see something like -1.387 degrees Cessna singles have relatively longer span, shorter chord ailerons than Mooneys. How does that affect roll control at and near stall? Skip

I think LOP is a lot more useful in a turbo, certainly out west where the MEAs are high and the power output from a NA engine is already so low that LOP just makes it go slow especially with only 200 HP. It’s useful down low when not in a hurry. Or, if you have one of the BIG engine models, you can think of it as derating. You go slower, but you mpg goes up and it’s not a bad tradeoff. Skip

I loved the few hours I got in the museum C-45 before another pilot ran off the runway in a crosswind and hit a runway distance remaining sign. We patched it up and the ferry pilot ground looped it on landing and killed it (but luckily not himself). It’s a great airplane and was Olive Beech’s favorite.

Check with Mid Continent. They are a Bendix King repair station and may have better parts access. I’ve found them very knowledgable and reasonable on pricing. Skip

In this thread...Impossible!

I appreciate everyone's comments and experience! I agree that trimming nose up during the flare would improve the nose wheel drop, but as has been pointed out it would make a go around more challenging. One thing to keep in mind is that the trim bungees add a lot of force to the yoke during the flare. We all learned full stall landings in trainers. I don't believe they are necessary or particularly desirable in high performance airplanes. Certainly it's not the way to land a multi-engine airplane or a jet, so why land a Mooney that way? All that's necessary is an attitude at touch down that permits landing on the mains with the nose wheel slightly above the runway. A Mooney can land shorter that way because it floats less. I've seen a lot of bad landings (mine included) result from trying to wrestle the airplane down to the ground solely with the elevators. It's best to remember that sometimes a little bit of power can save the day. A good landing requires coordination of ailerons, rudder, elevator and throttle. "Chop and drop" on short final works -- sometimes -- but it's not the best way to do it. Just my $.02 Skip

I’d call Autopilots Central, Executive Autopilots or Mid-Continent. Also, should figure out what caused it. Skip

It’s light bulbs not gas discharge.

I don’t know, but last year when my broker called to renew, the carrier declined (they had decided to exit the market I was told) and I never got a letter from them.

Liquid cooling worked very well in some WW II fighters. There are some advantages and the drag can be managed. Probably more fighters of that era would have been liquid cooled if the Navy hadn’t been dead set against them. Skip

Insurance companies are fickle. Years ago my carrier (USAIG) decided not to do business with my broker for some reason. They could have sent me a letter saying that if I wanted to renew I would have to do so through another broker. Instead I got a registered letter informing me they would not renew my policy with no reason stated. I guess my business wasn’t very important to them. It’s not like auto insurance where they will do a lot to keep you from switching. Skip

I get the best landings with full flaps crossing the threshold at 65 KIAS, with a little bit of power all the way down to the flare, then round out slightly nose high while simultaneously reducing power to idle. If I get the timing right, it settles on the mains and the nose wheel isn’t high enough to hit very hard. I’ve found it almost impossible to land with the nose very high and control the descent of the nose with elevator consistently. Worst landings are in the summer with a hot runway emitting thermals. The AOA on my Aspen PFD is really too small and it needs calibration. Skip

Should have mentioned I’m usually at a forward CG - just me or me +1. But still...

Here, unless I misunderstood Skip

Well, now I'm confused. Sounds to me like @kommers was a named insured on two airplanes that suffered losses. 1st loss was the M20C 2nd loss was the M20J I'd be interested in Parker's @Parker_Woodruff take, but the insurance company is probably thinking in terms of the risk of continuing to insure the named insured regardless of who was PIC. Skip

I should add that I haven't flown a C since the mid 1980's when I used to check out people in a flying club in San Jose CA. (N78888, cool registration, is still flying). It's been a long time, but I don't remember the same issue with it. But both the M20Js I've owned since have had a tendency to drop the nose on touchdown. I haven't flown a long body, but I did speak with a well known Mooney instructor at MooneyMax and he said that's just the way they are. Skip

The Mooney Parts Manager Steve Rue was pretty helpful supplying pdf service manuals, schematics and IPCs. Now that the factory is shut, I would still think you could get them through a MSC. Really should have them if working on you own airplane. Also very handy when you are on the road with a problem and the local mechanic doesn’t have the docs for your model. Skip

Ever notice how it's difficult to get the nose wheel to touch down softly when landing a J (my wife has ). If I don't land with the nose real high, and if I get the back pressure just right I can get a smooth touch, but usually there's a bit of a thunk. I think I figured out why. I took some pictures of other retractables around the airport recently and I noticed that the Mooney main wheels seem to be a bit farther aft than others (hard to tell for sure without measurements). It's a combination of the trailing link design, the truss geometry and the aft location of the main spar (characteristic of a laminar flow wing). The logic goes like this: Just before touchdown, there is a certain tail down force that creates a balancing moment about the airplane CG. At the moment of touch down, the moment arm shortens since the pivot point is now the main wheels rather than the CG, but the tail down force doesn't change. This creates a nose down pitching moment. Or, maybe I'm wrong and it's something else. Thoughts, anyone? Skip

Seems like a good starting point would be to understand the reasons that past efforts to utilize automotive engines in aircraft have generally been unsuccessful. Skip

Well, they do things differently in Canada Years ago I was cleared to land at Whitehorse (CYXY) and the controller said, "And just put it on the numbers please, we have men and equipment working farther down the runway." Sure enough, the 9500' runway was blocked with equipment about halfway down. Cool wind indicator there -- a real DC-3 on a stick.

Fair enough, it would be interesting to look at it both ways. I didn't mean to imply a bias against the low time pilot -- I was just wondering if the circumstances had any bearing. My gut tells me that insurance companies consider a loss a loss -- but...

@Parker_Woodruff, to expand on that: Do other factors come into play such as total experience, recent experience, certificates and ratings, time in type? In other words, consider two pilots: Pilot #1 has an ATP 10,000 hours, 2,000 hours in a Mooney and lands gear up due to a mechanical failure. Pilot #2 has a Private, 200 hrs, 50 hours in Mooneys and forgets to put the gear down. In today's climate, would each be treated equally for renewal? Thanks, Skip

It doesn't snow all that much in the Seattle area. Maybe some of you that live in snow country can tell me if this is the standard way to report airport conditions during a snow event. Recently, the Paine Field (KPAE) ATIS was advertising, " Wind 320 at 5, visibility one half mile in light snow and mist, ceiling 300 broken 700 overcast,..., RNAV runway 34L approach in use. Landing and departing runways 34. Notice to airmen, runways 16R/34L and 16L/34R closed." It just seemed strange to advertise the approach and runways in use and then announce that the same runways are closed. Skip

A spiral and a spin are completely different aerodynamically. In a spiral, the wing is not stalled and the airplane is in a steep descending turn. The outer wing has greater airspeed than the inner wing and is creating a rolling moment that perpetuates the turn. In a spin, the wing is stalled, however the angles of attack are different and this causes the auto rotation. A spiral will not become a spin, but improper spin recovery, or botched spin entry, can turn a spin into a spiral. The standard spin recovery technique is PARE - Power to idle, Ailerons neutral, Rudder held opposite the rotation, Elevator forward to reduce angle of attack. The rudder comes first because it is necessary to reduce or stop the rotation before breaking the stall. If the elevator is applied first, there is a possibility that the spin will stop and a spiral begin. A spin will not exceed any load or airspeed limits, but a spiral easily can especially during recovery. The recovery from a spiral is power off, coordinated roll to level the wings, and control pitch with elevator which may require a healthy push if the airspeed has gotten far above trim speed. Skip (CFII)