rpcc

Thanks everyone. Thinking about using these guys - www.northwestflyers.com . Any other recommendations in the area?

Wouldn't the IA have checked the AD's durring the annual? I'm guessing things that are marginal from a new buyer perspective are what you are looking for. What are the big items - fuel tank leaks, gear pucks, engine compressions, corrosion of course.

I'm Looking at a very clean ovation that came out of annual within the last month. Is this something that I can go without a pre buy on?

If you are looking for soft field ops the Bonanza product is probably better for that. Check out beechtalk for the v35 and f33 info - you worry about cg with those planes, not so much useful load. You should look at the sr20 as well. It might work for your goals. Don't know about the useful load though. Make sure you get in each type. Very different feeling between mooney and beech and of course the sr20. My favorite is the long body mooney, but not being ideal for soft field ops is a bummer, same issue with the sr20. As a note, the a36 has very similar opex to the other beech aircraft, but a bit more capex.

The younger long bodies have lower panels, has anyone tried to lower the height of the older panels when they recut them for whatever reason? I like the lower height of the newer planes. I'm guessing there could be approval problems as well as costs that could make it impractical.

My comment was really a complement to the OP. Sorry if it came across otherwise or some type of dig on mooney, that was not the intent.

For an Ovation, 18k is what I found to start. I'm sure you can spend more for a more involved scheme. That does not include issues that need to be addressed before the plane is refinished.

There's a thread around here where someone was commenting that there are mid continent AI's available sub 1k prices due to swap outs for glass panel work - check barnstormers etc. If I was selling the plane in the short term that would be the route I'd look at.

Don't mess with the paint geeks - they take their business seriously and engineer their products for the specific application. For a more involved discussion in a different environment look at Porsche's process for ordering a custom color on a new car. Just for the color it's a 7k option and could take 3-6 months for approval testing. The short version is that each requested color is tested on all the surfaces(composists, aluminum, steel, plastic etc) of where it will be applied and evaluated after being exposed to each possible environmental factor over time - heat, sunlight, cold and whatever else they think of. Remember this is just for a non-factory color - the same paint formulation is being used - just a COLOR change. Like any specialization - the geeks know their shit. If Porsche takes its paint this seriously for just color, I would not waste a second on putting a paint formulated for another environment on my plane. Btw - google irish green 911 - my personal favorite.

Very nice work. That's going to piss off the factory - can't have the earlier models looking nicer than the new ones. Quick question, my quotes for ovation paint work were in the high teens - I'm assuming this was mid to high 20's - is that about right?

Great post btw. What do you consider your limits for the top of weather you are comfortable with in the bravo?

Yup - I coat all the toilet paper in the house with rain-x - nothing sticks to it, you can reuse the same sheet forever.

I appreciate the numbers - thanks. What's your incentive to have a non-equity partner - seems like lots of risk to absorb on your part. Is the partner flying enough to offset your fixed costs to make it worth while? Just wondering as I'm considering this model. I don't think it would be worth it to me without some type of escrow in place - say 10k to cover some of the check writing for stuff that just happens - to me the reserve concept does not cover that risk.

@KLRDMD how long are you keeping your airplanes? How many hours do you purchase them with? Just wondering because I think the engine reserver concept is probably not well thought out. You should be targeting a point in time where you want to sell the plane and adjusting your reserve based on that. Assuming you may need to do a top overhaul mid time, you should be reserving for that expense. I don't think reserving for something that may happen beyond your ownership end should be considered. Yes, you may need to OH an engine early, but you can't adequately reserve for that. It seems to me the best plan is to get into a plane with one or two engines below 800hrs and get out before 1300hrs. I maybe off, but the strategy is to use the engine time where it depreciates the least and forget the reserve as its really just depreciation and that is as much due to market head or tail winds as your use of the plane. In this context I think reserving is just a waste of money. my 2 cents.

The last question on that site mentions an apple watch app - now that might really help

Thank you.

Not doubting these numbers, but is just seems very high rate of occurrence. @kortopates where are you getting your gear up reports from? Right now there are 12 M20's buzzing around per flightaware. So average flights per day 24 over 365 days (just wild ass guess). Given 104 gear ups(2 per week) divided by 8800 flights per year gives you a likelihood of a 1% chance that your flight will land on its belly. What's a gear up cost - 20k on average? With this math that's 2mm per year that premiums need to cover. That seems like enough incentive to somehow solve or reduce the likelyhood of these. My numbers are a complete guess, pick whatever you like.

pictures please.

That rudder looks so small btw.

I kinda like it. Unfortunately someone painted it like a brady bunch couch. Pull a little lipstick on this bulldog and it would look great. Are any of these flying?

Look at the bravo forum on this site - lots of stuff there. Also use the search function. There's lots of information available.

You are saying it can't be missing by someone removing fuel from your plane because the issue follows you around the country. You can't find evidence of fuel on the plane - stains, smells etc. You can't see evidence on the ground. If the fuel has moved from one tank to the other you should be able to verify that by sticking each tank. If you think its leaking you are looking for how approximately 3 shot glasses per hour departing your fuel tanks un noticed. Seems very strange. Can you send us some pictures of your plane and location where you tie it down? That may help - some of these guys have very sharp eyes. How could you ever fly this with such doubt about your fuel system?

Hey - thanks for starting this site. Personally I've learned a bunch and I'm sure that was your intent. Must have been fun in Kona - hope Santa Fe is just as fun.

@Hyett6420 - thanks for document - nice work.

That seems like too many things to break in such a short period of time. Its not even a month new to you correct?